25-11-2002 23:01									#1
	Corruption reducer Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm modding some city improvements to help with the corruption problem.

1. Dungeon - need Courthouse
   
2. Prison - need Police Station
   
3. Federal Prison
   

	26-11-2002 06:55									#2
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Make more than one of them, except label them as "Federal Prison I", "Federal Prison II", etc.

Since I don't have any fancy graphics program and I'm a dunce when it comes to programming, I simply created the "Provincial Government Charter" edict. There's no graphics for it since rather than being a building, it's an "edict". It's more like an invisible city improvement. It reduces overall corruption, but like most, if not all, government edicts, it has a downside - it is expensive to maintain since provincial governments still need quite a lot of cash from the central government to maintain themselves.

	26-11-2002 07:32									#3
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Hey, great to see more people doing anti-corruption mods .

Here's some ideas for you, if you don't mind the suggestions!

Small Wonders

First-Federal Police, requires palace, 5x courthouse?? (possibly 5x police station) potentially acts as a police station in every city (though I was thinking of another improvement, which acts as a level above the police station-like a Federal Investigation office!)
Supreme Court-requires 5x courthouse, palace. Acts as a Judiciary in every city.
Parliament-requires palace, min. city size (not sure if that can be done with the current editor?) Acts as a Parliamentary Member(Congressman, if you'd prefer) in every city.
Senate-requires palace. Counts as a senator in every city.
The list pretty much goes like this. The idea I had was that, not only have you got small wonders which reduce the effects of corruption Civ-Wide but, because they require a palace to build, if you lose your capital, then you're REALLY going to feel it. Anyway, as soon as my computer is repaired, and I have PtW, I'm going to put all these in a MOD!!! (My MEGA-MOD )

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	27-11-2002 19:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Hey, great to see more people doing anti-corruption mods . Here's some ideas for you, if you don't mind the suggestions! Small Wonders First-Federal Police, requires palace, 5x courthouse?? (possibly 5x police station) potentially acts as a police station in every city (though I was thinking of another improvement, which acts as a level above the police station-like a Federal Investigation office!) Supreme Court-requires 5x courthouse, palace. Acts as a Judiciary in every city. Parliament-requires palace, min. city size (not sure if that can be done with the current editor?) Acts as a Parliamentary Member(Congressman, if you'd prefer) in every city. Senate-requires palace. Counts as a senator in every city. The list pretty much goes like this. The idea I had was that, not only have you got small wonders which reduce the effects of corruption Civ-Wide but, because they require a palace to build, if you lose your capital, then you're REALLY going to feel it. Anyway, as soon as my computer is repaired, and I have PtW, I'm going to put all these in a MOD!!! (My MEGA-MOD ) Yours, The_Aussie_Lurker

Maybe I don't quite get what you after here, but if you mean a Forbidden Palace type structure that requires the Palace, it can't be done. For some reason you can't build two of those types of buildings in the same city, the second one won't even come up in the build list.

	28-11-2002 00:59									#5
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careful not to mod away to much corruption... it adds the realism (not included in any other civ game) that you can't take over another city and just start pumping infantry out of it.

either way, i think corruption should have something to do with happiness.

i made a corruption mod making barracks help... but then sun tzu is to good, so i made and another building called "Government outpost". it requires the wheel, and the horses recource. costs 40/60, cant decide i made it reduce corruption, and i made courthouses cost 100 shields instead. it would be nice if there was a checkbox "requires road to capitol"
now i WOULD make it cheaper to expantionist, but...

	28-11-2002 03:09									#6
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Hi Willem,

No, I'm not advocating an FP type improvement in your capitol-unfortunately I know that won't work !!! It would certainly make my job a LOT EASIER if it could. Oh well!
What I'm advocating is a Small Wonder, situated in the capital, which acts as a corruption reducing improvement in every city (like the police station or courthouse). By doing this, as well as giving them the ability to reduce war weariness and happiness, I hope that we can make the capitol of a civilization the true administrative heart that it should be!! i.e.-make it more disasterous to lose your capital!!
Anyway, just a thought.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	28-11-2002 10:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Hi Willem, No, I'm not advocating an FP type improvement in your capitol-unfortunately I know that won't work !!! It would certainly make my job a LOT EASIER if it could. Oh well! What I'm advocating is a Small Wonder, situated in the capital, which acts as a corruption reducing improvement in every city (like the police station or courthouse). By doing this, as well as giving them the ability to reduce war weariness and happiness, I hope that we can make the capitol of a civilization the true administrative heart that it should be!! i.e.-make it more disasterous to lose your capital!! Anyway, just a thought. Yours, The_Aussie_Lurker.

I just picked up PTW today and I discovered that you can't have a Small Wonder that creates an improvement in all your cities. Only a Wonder can do that.

	28-11-2002 10:48									#8
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That's VERY UNUSUAL Willem ,

In the PtW chat, the Firaxis team SPECIFICALLY said that all the flags for wonders (both Small and Great) were going to be pooled-in fact, I was COUNTING on it!!!!!
If you're right, then there goes my mod idea RIGHT OT THE WINDOW .
Can you please confrim this 100% and get back to me please? If you're right, then I shall demand an explanation from Firaxis about why they got my expectations up ?!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	28-11-2002 11:21									#9
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Here is the relevent part of the CivFanatics Chat....


Wise there are a lot of new things in the editor: time line control, x/y map wrapping, operation range increase, debug mode, combining of wonder/small wonder abilities[/B] , impassable terrain, support exemption for units, increased map size.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	28-11-2002 12:36									#10
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Aussie,
I can confirm this as I have the editor open at the moment. The check boxes in the editor are combined Great/Small wonders, but there are 4 drop down boxes which apply only to Great Wonders. These 4 boxes are ...

'Rendered Obsolete By'
'Doubles Happiness Of'
'Gain in Every City'
'Gain in Every City on Continent'

I will try and attach a screen shot in a bit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Kevin

	28-11-2002 12:46									#11
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Hmm, Didn't see an easy way to add a picture to an edited post so here's a screenshot.

Enjoy

Kevin

Attachment: civ3 edit screen - iron works.jpg
This has been downloaded 75 time(s).

	28-11-2002 16:33									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker That's VERY UNUSUAL Willem , In the PtW chat, the Firaxis team SPECIFICALLY said that all the flags for wonders (both Small and Great) were going to be pooled-in fact, I was COUNTING on it!!!!! If you're right, then there goes my mod idea RIGHT OT THE WINDOW . Can you please confrim this 100% and get back to me please? If you're right, then I shall demand an explanation from Firaxis about why they got my expectations up ?! Yours, The_Aussie_Lurker

I can confirm. All the wonder flags are now shared, except for the four selectors at the top, the "Renders Obsolete By:" etc. Those can still only be used by Wonders. I don't really know why they have to seperate anything at all, they should leave it to our discrection. I'd love to be able to use the "Required Goods Must Be Within City Radius" for ordinary improvements, but I'm stuck with just a one of a kind thing.

	28-11-2002 16:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Here is the relevent part of the CivFanatics Chat.... Wise there are a lot of new things in the editor: time line control, x/y map wrapping, operation range increase, debug mode, combining of wonder/small wonder abilities[/B] , impassable terrain, support exemption for units, increased map size. Yours, The_Aussie_Lurker.

I've been looking for the time-line control but haven't found it yet. Do you know where they've hidden it?

PS Never mind, I found it.

	28-11-2002 18:42									#14
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I've tried an alternative approach. I added improvement level reduces corruption to:
Palace
FP
IW
Collossus, Copernicus',Newton's etc.

Then you could change to communism without having key wonder/SS-component or science producing cities too corrupt. This obviously reduces corruption in outlying cities.
Obviously ithas less effect than suggested changes here but its often going to help the AI as much as a human player. The AI can't cope with one FP and likes communism too much.

	29-11-2002 03:17									#15
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the info, though I'm sorry to hear it . I am curious about one thing, though. Whats the deal with the Internet? Last time I heard, that was a small wonder that acts as a research lab in every city . So, how did they get around that with the current editor?
I think that, as a group, we need to direct a strongly worded complaint to Firaxis, as it is clear that they have MISREPRESENTED themselves in this regard. I should point out that I have long defended Firaxis against the flamers, but on this issue I feal truly gyped . Needless to say, I WILL NOT be buying PtW until all flags for Wonders/Small Wonders are pooled as they promised!!! I also needed the ability to obsolete small wonders, so the inability to that also makes any type of Mod I had planned UTTERLY HOPELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Firaxis, have you guys COMPLETELY dropped the ball-what's the deal here? Can you at least put our minds at rest, and tell us that you're on the case, and will make the neccessary changes in an upcoming patch?
Please answer this (hopefully) budding Modder, whose career looks like it might well be cut short!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	29-11-2002 05:04									#16
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Aussie,
They did it by making the internet a Great Wonder. It does rgant a research lab in every city. I think you are just mis-remembering that the internet was going to be a small wonder. I don't recall ever thinking it was going to be anything but a great wonder.

Sorry

Kevin

	29-11-2002 05:09									#17
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Well, I would WANT to change that anyway. The notion of the internet being a GREAT WONDER-given that almost every civilization on Earth has the Internet, is totally LUDICROUS!!! What I don't understand with all of this is why they continue doing what, in principle are great things, but then only doing them in HALF-MEASURES!! As far as I'm concerned, this editor is all but useless for either modding or scenario creation purposes! Like I said, until they change it, then I simply WILL NOT BUY PtW!!! Period .

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	29-11-2002 05:17									#18
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Hey KW,

I looked at your editor page screenshot again and couldn't help but notice something. The "Reduces Corruption" flag turns up twice on the screen. What I need to know is this-does the reduce corruption flag in Wonders/Small Wonders relate to FP style reduction or, if not, does it reduce corruption in all cities? Although the overall problem about improvements in all cities (and obsolescence) still exist, this would go part way towards helping my situation. Any info you have would be most helpful .

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	29-11-2002 05:47									#19
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Hey KW, I looked at your editor page screenshot again and couldn't help but notice something. The "Reduces Corruption" flag turns up twice on the screen. What I need to know is this-does the reduce corruption flag in Wonders/Small Wonders relate to FP style reduction or, if not, does it reduce corruption in all cities? Although the overall problem about improvements in all cities (and obsolescence) still exist, this would go part way towards helping my situation. Any info you have would be most helpful . Yours, The_Aussie_Lurker.

The "Reduces Corruption" flag on the wonders side means the same as the FP. The other one relates to the Courthouse etc.

Of course it's your decision not to get PTW, but you'd be missing out on some other good features for modding. My favourite is the ability to override terrain movement penalties. That alone makes the XP worth it IMO. Not to mention virtually unlimited range for aircraft if you choose.

Who knows, maybe they'll open up the the whole improvement screen in a later patch. I'm sure they haven't finished tinkering with the game yet.

	29-11-2002 05:54									#20
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Hi Willem,

Look, I confess that I am speaking mostly from a combo of shock and anger, at present . I probably will end up buying PtW, eventually, but probably not until about the start of next year (not hard given that we won't be getting it until the 6th of December!) I just know that I got SO EXCITED when they said that they were combining all the flags for Wonders/Great Wonders. To see them do a half-measure (in my opinion) was a real disappointment! I do have faith in the Firaxis guys, based on their excellent past record and I just hope that it will extend to this, as well. After all, how else will I have my Empire, Senate and Parliament small wonder if they don't?

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

P.S: If anyone can get in touch with the excellent Hackers out there, then perhaps they can create a newly hacked version of the editor (What do you say Gramphos-up to the Challenge? )

	29-11-2002 07:18									#21
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.Actually, Willem, regarding your earlier question regarding time control. Looking at the picture of the editor page, I'd say you want to look in either the Eras or the General Settings pages-it hopefully should be there .
I must say that, if I do get PtW, I might end up doing a mod which allows you to play only up to the start of the Industrial Age (say c1750 AD), and make the ancient and Middle ages MUCH LONGER-and with more techs in each. Even this plan, however, would be significantly helped if they opened up the remaining Great Wonder flags .

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	29-11-2002 09:21									#22
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker .Actually, Willem, regarding your earlier question regarding time control. Looking at the picture of the editor page, I'd say you want to look in either the Eras or the General Settings pages-it hopefully should be there .

It's in the Scenario Properties area.