26-11-2002 11:45									#1
	Idiot AI trades Tired of ads?

Is it just me or can the computer NEVER make a fair trade
ex.

World map for your world map and 2 techs

how about this, i give you the finger and you go away
Unfortunately I can't give them the finger.

Firaxis seriously needs to work on this. I had hopes for PTW, but no dice. The only time the comp gives in is when I am nocking on their capital with Panzers.

	26-11-2002 12:00									#2
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Funny thing is that sometimes even if I have already wiped some of their cities and I am approaching their capital they still give me lop sided deals! But that's when I enforce my "Bush: you obey me or I annihilate you strategy" and wipe some more cities out .

So long...

PS: The lack of AI when it comes to diplomacy and trade is well known and documented, unfortunately there is nothing than we can do !

Last edited by The Pioneer on 27-11-2002 at 12:14

	26-11-2002 12:48									#3
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I don't have a problem with trading. Of course, when I just meet some one and they know the full map, world map vs world map just doesn't cut it... As far as I can tell the AI deals in a nice manner when your on there good side and since I play builder (deity) it's really not a problem.

	26-11-2002 14:19									#4
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A lot of factors goes into that offer. The AI has put a high value on the map as from its perspective you need (it does not understand that you do not) and it sees you in an unfavorable light and acts accordingly. It looks ugly from the humans perspective, but it makes sense to the AI. Like Vlado says if you are on excellent terms with the AI, it will be less strident.

	26-11-2002 16:43									#5
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The AI will always be greedy if you are rich/advanced.

	27-11-2002 04:16									#6
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You can get better values off of the AI if you have recently(or sometimes not very recently) beat them down in a war.

	28-11-2002 03:50									#7
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Easy way to update your map. Send tanks over to survey the territory your interested in.

	28-11-2002 05:12									#8
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On one occasion, I proposed the following trade deal: I would give 61 gpt (my current income), and the AI would give 1 gpt. And the foreign advisor tells me that "they would never accept such a deal." What the hell do they want? 201 gpt?

	28-11-2002 05:42									#9
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Vlad :
The AI will systematically refuse gpt deals if it hasn't the money to do it. It also seems to be excessively reluctant to make gpt deals even when it makes money, in the ancient era. The player isn't expected to offer more gpt than he demands

Omegared :
the AI values world map in function of what they know and you don't know (and reversed). If the AI knows the whole map, while you know only half, then it will deem your map worthless, and will make you pay big bucks for its map.
There are plenty "stupidities" of the AI regarding diplomacy : - offer lump sum for a tech so that the AI agrees. Now, add 1gpt or 1 luxury/resource : the AI will refuse (it refuses all per turn trades when you want a one-shot thing if you ruined your reputation)
- ask repeatedly the same demand in the same diplomatic session, and you'll piss them off so that they attack you. Same thing with sending spies.
and so on... I'm tired, I can't remember other examples...

	28-11-2002 19:46									#10
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I forgot to mention how I handle those 'map for map+tech' deals.

Make a counter offer and buy their world map. It will be expensive the first time, but after the map is fully explored, you can usually get their map for around 20-100 gold. This serves two purposes, 1 - they don't annoy you as much with those half-assed deals and 2 - your maps gets updated regularly.

	04-12-2002 03:44									#11
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The AI may be demanding sometimes, but it's also pretty desperate when it comes to tech, I find. I'd never pay 100 gold/turn for a tech, but the AI does it often.

	04-12-2002 09:40									#12
	Re: Idiot AI trades Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by ~OmegaRed~ Is it just me or can the computer NEVER make a fair trade ex. World map for your world map and 2 techs how about this, i give you the finger and you go away Unfortunately I can't give them the finger. Firaxis seriously needs to work on this. I had hopes for PTW, but no dice. The only time the comp gives in is when I am nocking on their capital with Panzers.

Some of us have been complaining about this stupidity ALL FREAKING YEAR. Through four patches, PTW, and a PTW patch, Fiaxis still has refused to fix it.

The Diplomatic/Trade AI is one of the things I hate most about the game. You also take rep hits for things you never did, or things that are very minor, and the AI civs hate you for thousands of years, which is crazy.

	04-12-2002 09:43									#13
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer PS: The lack of AI when it comes to diplomacy and trade is well known and documented, unfortunately there is nothing than we can do !

Indeed. Why I've given up on it.

	04-12-2002 10:01									#14
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Learn the game.

Both of you, Pioneer and Coracle, what's the largest gpt deal you've gotten from an AI civ?

(your entire credibility is on the line here...)

	04-12-2002 10:24									#15
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Vlad: the AI will also "never accept such a deal" when it looks like YOU can't afford it. They wouldn't give you 1 gold for 61 gpt, but if you went back and checked, I bet they would give you 1 gold for a mere 10 gpt--because you could afford it.

They don't want to trade with you if you might have to renege on the deal (were you building any improvements at the time? If so, your income was likely to decrease below 61 gpt before 20 turns was up).

	04-12-2002 10:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Learn the game. ...)

No need to learn the game! Just go into the editor and make the settler a Unique Unit for your own civilisation.

BTW The game runs normally if do you this except the AI only gets one city plus goody hut settlers if any.

That means the end of AI settler diarhea, hard to get outresearched, little need for diplomacy, not much culture flipping problems, miniscule invasion problems and pretty well solves all the other problems Coracle mentioned he was having in this and the other thread.

	04-12-2002 12:41									#17
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I've had 155 gpt from the Russians... plus Ivory as well for twenty turns.

	04-12-2002 14:24									#18
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In my games, I only get gpt from the Japanese, sometimes also from the Greeks. Everybody else just offers something like 5 gold for everything I have to offer.
Once I managed to get good deals from both the Japanese and the Greeks at the same time (I had a lot of extra luxuries) and for 20 turns I had an income of 100+ gold. After 20 turns, before I renewed the deals, I checked my income. It had dropped to around -10 gpt.

	04-12-2002 14:57									#19
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A good thing about the AI is that it never offers you something it doesn't have. That's why you won't get hundreds of gpt, the AI simply doesn't have more to offer.