26-11-2002 18:35									#1
	Anyone seen PTW in Dutch stores yet?/ZOC Tired of ads?

Over the last few weeks I've been going to the store almost daily to see if they have PTW yet. And they still don't... Has anyone seen it yet? I'm tingling with anticipation for PTW and can't hold out much longer..like a real civ fan .

By the way, me being off the forums for some time may have caused that I don't know if there's been talk about the ZOC. So I'll just speak my mind here then. Who agrees that ZOC should have been in Civ3, and who thinks Firaxis should have added it in the expansion? I think that it's the biggest mistake Firaxis made with Civ3, leaving out the ZOC. Didn't it work great in Civ 1 and 2??...

	26-11-2002 23:02									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

No it was horrible in civ1 and civ2. The idea that friendlies could prevent me from moving so easily was gross. Nearly as bad as the spy. I mean Civ2 was a great game, but it had so many flaws and was too easy. Still lots of fun though. I like the modified ZOC that some units have, more reasonable. You asked.

	27-11-2002 03:02									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Nah, a civ game without ZOC is terrible. In civ3, enemy settlers with their escorts freely cross your borders, and while diplomacy doesn't really keep them away, you can only hold them off by moving multiple units next to every square you don't want them to go. And you simply don't have the manpower, especially in the early fases of the game, to hold them off! It really bugs the sh*t out of me to see an enemy settler cross my land, only to found a city somewhere at the other side of my border, where I just wanted to build a city. And taking that city by culture takes way too long. The other point is that military units are hard to hold off. By saying this I might make you think that this is to make the game more difficult, but when you see that enemy units can simply walk past all your defenses and pillage your land everywhere they want, without being held back by my own military units just because there's no rule to hold them back.....I'm rambling..but you see my point.
I want ZOC

And does anyone know if PTW is out in The Netherlands yet?????

	27-11-2002 13:00									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I personally have no problem with how the ZOC works in Civ3. I also think that Civ3 has other more important deficiences than the ZOC.

I don't know if it's in Holland yet.

So long...

	27-11-2002 13:52									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

scientific civ I see what you are saying, I just don't buy it. I have not had settlers come into my lands in a very long time. This prevented by not being weaker than they are in military. If you are ranked as strong vs them, they will not cross your culture borders as that would/could lead to war. The ZOC in civ2 basically is what you are doing using a few troops now, that is making it so they can not proceed without a conflict.

	27-11-2002 14:27									#6
	Got spare money?

SInce we're getting the PTW UK version in Holland (AFAIK) the release is postponed. Dunno exact time but Amazon UK has changed it's release dat from 22/11 to 6/12 when I looked last week. So don't expect Sinterklaas to leave a copy in your shoe!

ZOC: I think the Civ 3 solution is better. You can travel thru the AI's territory as well taking their prime lands. I usually block settlers with some warriors. When I'm more powerfull I ask them to leave or declare war and reap the free workers.

ProPain