26-11-2002 23:25									#1
	DirectX 9... are they kidding me? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I just got PC Mag yesterday, and I came across an article about new graphic cards. I then saw somthing about DirectX 9.

PCMag said that DX9 will require NEW graphic cards, and that cards not made for it will not work with DX9 installed (not to mention games that use DX9)!!!

Now I know past DX upgrades required new cards, but that was just to use the new features, they still could run the games and such.

Am I the only one that's kinda p***ed about this? Because I was hopeing I can wait until 10GHz (or at least 5GHz) computers role before I dish any more money out like that.

	27-11-2002 00:34									#2
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What games will require DX9 then? I would assume only ones that would have required these new graphics cards. I don't think it will be a problem. PC game producers in most cases do a good job of keeping specs low so that the masses can play there game.

	27-11-2002 01:29									#3
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DX9 supports tons of all new things only supported in DX9 hardware. DX8 does the same thing (pixel shaders).

You can run DX9 games on your older hardware provided they don't use DX9-hardware-only features as a mandatory requirement (128-bit color, etc.). Just like you can't run games with pixel shaders on any cards but DX8 cards.

Game makers make those type of things options, at least for a couple of years.

Don't worry about it.

	27-11-2002 04:15									#4
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Thats what I figured. Thanks Asher.

	27-11-2002 20:50									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Asher DX9 supports tons of all new things only supported in DX9 hardware. DX8 does the same thing (pixel shaders). You can run DX9 games on your older hardware provided they don't use DX9-hardware-only features as a mandatory requirement (128-bit color, etc.). Just like you can't run games with pixel shaders on any cards but DX8 cards. Game makers make those type of things options, at least for a couple of years. Don't worry about it.

I'm sorry but from what I gather from MS, you will have to buy new video cards because older cards won't run at all if you plan on using DX9. Since unlike other DX version, DX was rewritten from the ground up to allow the new shader language.

I had a Cirrus Logic 2MB video (which I say is the best of all time), it went from DX3 to DX6 before I had to buy a new computer. And this was a Suckard Bell.

	28-11-2002 00:36									#6
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There no logic in games designers making games only a few people can play.........it will not happen. The people who need to worry are those that will have cards that support fancy dx9 stuff and no games that use them.

	28-11-2002 07:24									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I'm sorry but from what I gather from MS, you will have to buy new video cards because older cards won't run at all if you plan on using DX9. Since unlike other DX version, DX was rewritten from the ground up to allow the new shader language.

What you're reading is a bunch of bullshit.

I've had the DX9 SDK for a couple of months how. Hell, DX9 even emulates the new vertex shaders in CPU (albeit quite slowly) for those who don't have capable hardware.

DX9 is just like DX8 in that there are some features that can only run on dedicated hardware, but game makers make those optional so people actually BUY their games and can run them.

	28-11-2002 07:59									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Asher What you're reading is a bunch of bullshit. I've had the DX9 SDK for a couple of months how. Hell, DX9 even emulates the new vertex shaders in CPU (albeit quite slowly) for those who don't have capable hardware. DX9 is just like DX8 in that there are some features that can only run on dedicated hardware, but game makers make those optional so people actually BUY their games and can run them.

I just hope you're right. I still don't want to give up my Voodoo3 3000 card.

	28-11-2002 10:48									#9
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Errm...with a Voodoo 3 3000 you probably won't be able to run DX9 games.

Not because of DX, but because 3dfx wont' be making DirectX 9 drivers because 3dfx isn't around anymore.

	29-11-2002 13:02									#10
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****ing 3dfx... I'm glad I have a GeForce 4 Go, now .

	29-11-2002 18:35									#11
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My current soundcard doesn't work with DX8.1


(I will be buying a new one today, I think... I was going to wait untill I got everything else for my new computer, but I want to be able to play Hearts of Iron without any problems)

	01-12-2002 00:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Errm...with a Voodoo 3 3000 you probably won't be able to run DX9 games. Not because of DX, but because 3dfx wont' be making DirectX 9 drivers because 3dfx isn't around anymore.

I know

I'm still using it for two reasons:

1: A sign of protest against nVidia which in it's contract said they would continue to update the drivers.

2: A converstation I had with an nVidia lady rep, which she basicly said that all the stop errors I'm getting in XP pro is from the nVidia card i bought (since there are no drivers for Voodoo), and that nVidia admitts that their drivers DO NOT support XP. Expect drivers to support XP by this Feb. So I returned the nVidia card and now I'm back to Voodoo, but the hacked drivers work so well I don't think I'll switch.

Of course, I have no choice with my laptop... and I can't watch DVDs or play too much of any games NOR any 3D editing (3D shape screen savers as well) because every 3.5 seconds I get a BSD stop error.

	01-12-2002 00:50									#13
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The nVidia drivers don't support XP? That can't be right, he said disbelievingly.

	01-12-2002 01:21									#14
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Yeah, something's not right with that -- they clearly say they support Windows XP on their website, and most people I know run WinXP + Nvidia cards without issue...

	01-12-2002 02:00									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yeah, something's not right with that -- they clearly say they support Windows XP on their website, and most people I know run WinXP + Nvidia cards without issue...

I asked the same thing... she said that they are geared towards XP, but they don't fully support it like Win98SE.

If you want to call anyone a liar, tell that to the that lady rep I called.

	01-12-2002 02:05									#16
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No one said liar except you, mate. I just think it sounds unlikely, and that maybe the rep was mistaken. I know many people who run XP with nVidia cards......hell, XP is popular these days, and nVidia have a large percentage of the graphics card market. Perhaps it is true there are more problems with XP than other OS's, I wouldn't like to say.

	01-12-2002 02:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I asked the same thing... she said that they are geared towards XP, but they don't fully support it like Win98SE. If you want to call anyone a liar, tell that to the that lady rep I called.

Well, maybe you were talking to a disgruntled employee or something.

Stuff like the Detonator 40s first come out for Win2K and XP and eventually were "ported" to Win98...

	02-12-2002 01:20									#18
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I notice that Thrawn said "xp pro". Would that matter? I've been running my Nvidia with xp home for almost a year now, updated drivers twice, etc, with no problem. Could this be an xp pro thing?

	02-12-2002 01:27									#19
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Nope, most people I know use XP Pro and it's fine.

XP Pro is XP Home with stuff unlocked.

	02-12-2002 02:56									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nope, most people I know use XP Pro and it's fine. XP Pro is XP Home with stuff unlocked.

XP Pro = W2K that can run Win98SE software
XP home = Win98SE with W2K Kernel.


I think I got it right.

Now... let's let this thread die.

Do the B-Day Dance!

	02-12-2002 04:09									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 XP Pro = W2K that can run Win98SE software XP home = Win98SE with W2K Kernel.

Not really...
XP Pro = Win2K that can run Win98 SE software
XP Home = Win2K that can run Win98 SE software without lots of the cool features of Win2K (to dumb it down)

	05-12-2002 01:58									#22
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Apparently my soundcard didn't have conflicts with Direct X 8.1 afterall, since I've gotten an audigy and all of my problems still continue.

	05-12-2002 04:59									#23
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What does dxdiag say?
And what issues?

	05-12-2002 05:12									#24
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I know that even though my sound card (Sigma Tel) is DirectX 8.1 copat, it doesn't have any buffering, so I can't test it. Perhaps that's the same problem with you Osweld.

	05-12-2002 18:40									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Asher What does dxdiag say? And what issues?

The file EMU10KX.VXD is not digitally signed, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs. You may be able to get a signed driver from the manufacturer of the hardware device.

Is the closest thing to an error that dxdiag reports.



The issues I have with it are, in EU2 and HoI, sounds will only play once. in NWN and Morrowind, the movies will lag and the sound will cut out every 5 seconds. I can not play Morrowing for longer then 5 mintues or so before it crashes (I read in the FAQ that this could be caused from soundcard/directX issues, but never spent alot of time looking into it) in Robinhood: Legend of Sherwood, the game will lag for about 10 seconds every time a sound is played.


These can all be fixed by turning down the hardware acceleration, but that will cause there to be alot of background fuzz (and I do mean alot)


This originally started when I was using a PCI128, I have since bought an audigy and have done a clean install of it and downloaded the latest drivers. I've also made sure that it does not share an IRQ conflicts, and I have talked to the tech support at paradox about it many times but they've never been able to figure out why it happens. (and I've discovered that I'm not the only person who has these problems)

	05-12-2002 20:24									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The file EMU10KX.VXD is not digitally signed, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs. You may be able to get a signed driver from the manufacturer of the hardware device. Is the closest thing to an error that dxdiag reports. The issues I have with it are, in EU2 and HoI, sounds will only play once. in NWN and Morrowind, the movies will lag and the sound will cut out every 5 seconds. I can not play Morrowing for longer then 5 mintues or so before it crashes (I read in the FAQ that this could be caused from soundcard/directX issues, but never spent alot of time looking into it) in Robinhood: Legend of Sherwood, the game will lag for about 10 seconds every time a sound is played. These can all be fixed by turning down the hardware acceleration, but that will cause there to be alot of background fuzz (and I do mean alot) This originally started when I was using a PCI128, I have since bought an audigy and have done a clean install of it and downloaded the latest drivers. I've also made sure that it does not share an IRQ conflicts, and I have talked to the tech support at paradox about it many times but they've never been able to figure out why it happens. (and I've discovered that I'm not the only person who has these problems)

When dealing with DX, IRQ are the least of your problems unlike the glory days of DOS. Here are some possible options for you:

1: Find the manufacture, and find DX 8.1 driver, and if you can't, e-mail the company and ask.

2: Try uninstalling the hardware in Device manager and let Windows use it's own driver for it.

3: Go out and spend $20 US and buy a Sound Blaster 16-Bit PCI sound card from Wal-Mart. That's what I did. I think it sounds better then my old Turtle Beach (Montego II?) card that was giving me such a hard time. Of course, I seem to be in the minority in this, since I know a lot of people would rather die that have less then 6 speakers around their PC.

	05-12-2002 20:33									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 3: Go out and spend $20 US and buy a Sound Blaster 16-Bit PCI sound card from Wal-Mart. That's what I did. I think it sounds better then my old Turtle Beach (Montego II?) card that was giving me such a hard time. Of course, I seem to be in the minority in this, since I know a lot of people would rather die that have less then 6 speakers around their PC.

No, I just went out and spent 180$ (damn them and their software packaging ) on a soundblaster audigy - and it didn't change anything at all. There is no way that I am going to get another soundcard for a very long time.




I don't even know if this is a problem with Direct X, I just assumed it was - I don't know what to think now, though, since geting a new soundcard didn't change anything.

	05-12-2002 20:39									#28
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I feel your pain, as does anyone that has ever had inexplicable computer problems. I would suggest getting all modern hardware, since it is my experience that people that try and combine new and old hardware, or old hardware and newer software, are the ones most likely to get problems. But if you bought an audigy..........

What about your other components?

	05-12-2002 21:05									#29
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Do you have the latest drivers for the card?

You should also try updating your motherboard drivers

	06-12-2002 00:17									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Do you have the latest drivers for the card? You should also try updating your motherboard drivers

I was thinking it was the motherboard as well.

I can bet real money that the drivers are having a hard time talking to the hardware. Well, now that I think of it, it's a "duh".

How old is your computer in general? I think it would be a good idea to list ALL of your hardware down, since I'm working blind here.