27-11-2002 05:36									#1
	Why are workers destroyed after building certain things? Put an end to popups!

I haven't seen a similar thread on this. I don't understand why they did this. It's not like they didn't have flexiblity with the workes as workers normally build things without dying. Why did they do this?

	27-11-2002 06:01									#2
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Well, they also disappeared when you built a colony in the "normal" Civ3 game (before PtW). Perhaps the idea is that you need manpower for operating an airfield, radar tower, colony etc. It is indeed a bit illogical, since you can build mines, forts and irrigations without loosing the guys, but hey - itīs a game

	27-11-2002 06:16									#3
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I forgot about colonies. never used them

	27-11-2002 08:30									#4
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The AI seems to love radar towers,but I have no idea why.

	27-11-2002 08:41									#5
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defence bonuses

-Mellian

	27-11-2002 08:54									#6
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offensive bonus too.

25% bonus to units in it's range

	27-11-2002 09:18									#7
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maybe it is just to balance out the game. the penalty rewards efficient, strategic planning and discourages random, wholesale proliferation of these things.

	27-11-2002 10:54									#8
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I like wholesale proliferation. If my workers were idle I'd put them everywhere

	27-11-2002 10:56									#9
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Well, they also disappeared when you built a colony in the "normal" Civ3 game (before PtW). Perhaps the idea is that you need manpower for operating an airfield, radar tower, colony etc. It is indeed a bit illogical, since you can build mines, forts and irrigations without loosing the guys, but hey - itīs a game

The reason you don't lose workers to work the mines and fields they create is because your City Citizens are working those.

Colonies, Airfields, Outposts and Radar Towers are all "field" bases for things that do, and should, require manpower to operate. The fact that these can be built nearly anywhere, particularly in neutral territory, dictates that your citizens in cities will not be the ones working these facilities the way they work mines and fields.

	27-11-2002 12:40									#10
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Actually Ducki,
You can't put radar towers outside of your territory in neutral territory, though I believe you can place them in outside of the city working radius. As long as it's inside your cultural borders.

KP

	27-11-2002 13:48									#11
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what exactly does outposts, and how do radar towers work if they come under enemy culture borders, and... can you pillage enemy field bases, what happens to the poor worker?

	27-11-2002 15:27									#12
	Re: Why are workers destroyed after building certain things? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Dissident It's not like they didn't have flexiblity with the workes as workers normally build things without dying. Why did they do this?

Hmmm, are they sacrificed to deity? (at least they should in Aztec Civ). Did they dead by incident during building activities? Is it a way to simulate the resources cost of the improvements, in a simplified game model?

Chose one.

	27-11-2002 20:29									#13
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if workers didnt have to be used up, there would be radar towers everywhere late game. an industrious civ would get 4 workers and pop a tower a turn.

	27-11-2002 20:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Usually Insane what exactly does outposts, and how do radar towers work if they come under enemy culture borders, and... can you pillage enemy field bases, what happens to the poor worker?

Outposts: pushes back the "fog of war" (line of sight - 2 on flat terrrain, 3 on hill, and 4 on mountain). Can be built within your cultural borders or within neutral territory.

Radar Towers: Gives a defensive and offensive bonus to the host nations units (a 2- tile radious around the tower). Can only be built within your cultural borders.

If either Outposts or Radar Towers end up being located within enemy territory (cultural expansion), they are automatically destroyed.

Yes, you can pillage enemy outposts, radar towers, field air bases.

When building any of these 3 types of improvements, your worker is automatically assimilated into the structure. If the structure is destroyed, so is the worker who build it, since the worker no longer exists (he's now the terrain improvement).

I hope this "cleared the mud" Usually Insane.


Edit: Typo concerning Outposts (Thanks UberKruX).

	27-11-2002 21:19									#15
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i think outputs give 3 on hill and 4 on mountain, but feel free to correct me.

	27-11-2002 23:07									#16
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Game balance seems to be the main excuse.

Personally, I think colonies should only vanish if it ends up in the city radius of a full-fledged city. Otherwise, it should send resources to either the nearest city (food/shields) or the civilization as a whole (commerce).
If w/in the boundaries of another civ, you only get the resources if you are at peace w/them or if there is a path that is unblocked by their territory.

Then I can grab those gold resources in the middle of those thick mountain ranges and get a small bit of cash to throw into my coffers.

Yes, I'm thinking something along the lines of the supply crawlers from Alpha Centauri. Though with more options on where the resources are sent. Pick a city from the list, and such, default is the closest when the colony is created and/or the destination is changed.

Haven't gotten far enough into the game to play w/airbases yet. Will try soon since I have a four-day weekend coming up.

	28-11-2002 00:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX i think outputs give 3 on hill and 4 on mountain, but feel free to correct me.

Oops! My bad - You are right Uber, a typo on my part.

	28-11-2002 01:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sinapus Game balance seems to be the main excuse.

It's definitely game balance that's the reason.

EDIT: Hrm just noticed I'm a Prince now. Some people would beg to differ with that methinks.

	28-11-2002 02:21									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Keep in mind that if you capture some slaves, they can also be used to build these structures.

This may be the primary reason while the cost of buying workers greatly increased in PTW.

I guess that military units can only benifit from 1 Radar Towers even if they are within range of 2 of them?

Outposts being built in Neutral Terrirory can also be used to keep barbarians out.

Colonies & Outposts can be more important if you apply mods that eliminate the ability to build cities in both Tundra & Desert. (You might need to elimate plant trees in tundra as well.)

	28-11-2002 07:25									#20
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actually now I realize why it is coded that way.

Because the radar tower and lookout tower is actually a "unit" that "sees". I guess they couldn't code it so a terrain improvement "sees". So essentually the worker turns into an immobile unit that sees 2 squares (4 on mountain etc.)

	28-11-2002 07:53									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident actually now I realize why it is coded that way. Because the radar tower and lookout tower is actually a "unit" that "sees". I guess they couldn't code it so a terrain improvement "sees". So essentually the worker turns into an immobile unit that sees 2 squares (4 on mountain etc.)

That's too funny

	28-11-2002 13:47									#22
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tanx wittlich, nice to know. however, isn't it better to just place a unit on the mountain instead, seems smarter to me... then again, I haven't had the chance to play the game yet