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Trifna
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of anchovies
Jul 2001
time: 13:23
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We're talking about serious Civ revolutioning here.
The city modelization in Civ always have been a representation (by a tile called "city"). And ressources around just stay as they are, + improvements. But look at New York and USA's East coast! Forests? Mines? Forget it. I guess there's nothing but the city between NY and Chicago or Washington. So it changes alot on many aspects:
- tiles (forest to city, plains to city, etc.)
- production (food's production isn't 30km outside NY's center...)
- unit moves (to a certain extent)
- moving troops on opponent's field
- attacks on city
- how the map looks
So I would propose a way to arrange this. Of course, it implies to consider the growth of production by science, which is what permits such big cities (enough food, etc.).
I would see possible to graphically simply show the city taking expansion, until it even reaches tiles around. Once a tile is touched, it is touched GRADUALLY, which means it will have only it's boarders with city, then more, more, more.... until its production is a entirely a city-type production (which will go up with the city beeing more dense/effective). It also means that the value of the center tile will see its value change through expansion (since it wont be only city form the beginning).
EDIT: It's not only about a graphical issue but mainly the gameplay issue that's important here. Presently, the geographical expansion of cities isn't in Civ 3.
Last edited by Trifna on 05-12-2002 at 22:24
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The_Aussie_Lurker
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Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
May 2001
time: 05:23
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You're right, Theseus. That genius, Snoopy  (at least, I think it was him  ) , came up with a graphics mod which turned all the railroaded tiles into suburban squares, and irrigated squares into farmhouses and barns and the like! It looked REALLY COOL!!!
On this sort of subject, though, although I like what they've done regarding borders and luxuries/strategic resources (ie all cities connected to capital get access to all luxuries/resources in border), I was hoping that they could have done a similar thing for production/food and commerce. For instance, lets say you have an industrialized city with about 20 shields/turn, then a fraction of that production (say 10-20%) should be available to all citiies connected to your capital). The same with food-so that cities with food a food surplus of 4, for instance, should be able to contribute 1 or 2 "bushels" of food to every city in the empire (But, say, only if they are even or in famine conditions). This would, in my opinion, reflect the manner in which cities are known to specialize in real life-with some being industrial heartlands and others being breadbaskets, with yet another type being financial centres (Like NYC for instance)
Anyway, probably too much to hope for in Civ3, maybe Civ4  .
Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.
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The_Aussie_Lurker
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Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
May 2001
time: 05:23
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Sorry Trifna, I certainly hadn't intended to Hijack this thread, I guess I just misunderstood your intention, and didn't realise that you were talking about MORE than just graphic issues (sorry!)
If it helps, I was considering the following ideas for a Industrial/Modern age Mod, once I get my hands on PtW. Basically, I intend to have "improvements" such as Suburbs (reduces corruption, increased commerce and production-increased pollution and possibly reduced culture??), Central Business District (again increased commerce, reduced corruption), Industrial Zone (Increased pollution, increased pollution-requires factory), intracity road network (increased commerce, increased production, increased pollution). I also had ideas for a city railway network, highways and freeways! I also want the ability to create improvements, in a city, that grant production and/or food bonuses in surrounding tiles, in the same way that harbours and offshore platforms do for coastal tiles. This might help me to reflect, again in an abstract fashion, the movement of goods and services between cities, and might even allow cities to specialise in finance, manufacturing or food production.
Beyond that, I had hoped that a civs cities which are connected by the trade network, and are on the same continent, should have pooled commerce, production and food from all of their cities. It should then be possible to "dole" these out to cities in your trade network AS THEY NEED THEM, and any excess could even be included in the international resource trade which currently already exists in the game.
Failing that, I'd like to give roads and rail a bonus to food, production and commerce to that tile-to reflect the intra-civ trade of raw materials etc. However, I don't want to do that until I'm able to give railways a maintainance cost, to prevent abuse by player and AI alike!! Anyway, those are just a few thoughts on this subject, I hope that gets debate going!
Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.
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Brizey
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The Republic of Texas
Apr 2002
time: 23:23
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Let me clarify what I was saying...
The two extremes of civilization-wide sharing are a purely discrete model and a purely distributed model.
In the purely discrete model, all cities are completely economically and industrially isolated. This means that the cities only cooperate on a strategic level. This is NOT the civ3 model. The commercial production is shared, but the industrial production is not (at least not directly or efficiently).
In a purely distributed model, you really don't have cities, other than as strategic points of reference and outlets of production. This is also not the civ model.
Reality is of course, between these too extremes.
As for the discret integer thingybob, what this does is make it easy for humans to do estimations of outcomes in their heads. We can think things like: in two turns, pigopolis will grow one population point, so I better add another worker to finish that mine on that turn so I can maximize my new citizen's production. All of this fine tuning is tractable because it is based on simple integers and arithmetic. We can exactly predict the outcome of our decisions.
If the system were more complicated, such as distributed production, these types of decisions would be too difficult and we would have to rely more on intuition and guesswork.
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27-11-2002 22:33
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