28-11-2002 02:01									#1
	EEK! We Have No Gold! Tax Rate Question... Inflate your Upload Space

I'm viewing the current situation from the point of view of Minister of Trade, concerning with our accumulation of gold in all ways...

The Treasury has been spent on undoubtedly worthwhile projects. Still, we have but 42 lonely pieces of gold in the government vaults, so the situation needs to be improved.

We do have Caravans being transported by our Glorious Galleon Fleet to the Celts, The Mongols, and the Chinese, so will will be getting some income. However, the value of getting gold through taxes each and every turn cannot be ignored either. Our current science rate is 4 turns @ 60%, which gets us 93 gold minus 42 maintenance costs @10% tax. We can raise our tax rate to 20%, netting us 197 gold minus 42 maintenance costs and our tech rate *remains* at 4 turns @ 50%!

Further, we have only 2 cities that can benefit from WLTPD. We can lower the Luxury Rate to 20% (from 30%) and increase our gold to 291 minus 42 gold pieces per turn by adjusting workers in only 2 cities.

I suggest we adjust our to 30-50-20 instead of the current 10-60-30.

	28-11-2002 02:18									#2
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I suggest keep tax rate as low as possible , even set it to zero and get all the gold from caravan/freight delivery.
want to get lots of our cities beyond size 20 if we can.

that would be my plan anyway

	28-11-2002 02:39									#3
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It appears to me that the WLTxD cycle has about run dry for now (and masterful work you did with it to the limits, my admiration is unbounded). Only 2 cities are still viable for such gains, though (Avila and CAPITOL), and the benefits may not be worth the continued focus.

We will reach another opportunity to use the WLTxD again, but we need to prepare our cities for it in the future.

	28-11-2002 02:45									#4
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The constant supply of amazonian virgins did help keep the people happy.

	28-11-2002 02:58									#5
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I wanted to vote for: 30-50-20 ,but I accenendly put 20-50-30! Oh well...

	28-11-2002 02:58									#6
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Oh well - never a mind

	28-11-2002 03:22									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey The constant supply of amazonian virgins did help keep the people happy.

Just a question of no particular personal concern, but will the Amazonian warrior ladies be remaining in the Capital when you retire from office?

	28-11-2002 03:30									#8
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60.10.30

We have to build markets and banks anyway to keep our people happy, might as well use them

And we can get enough beakers from all the caravans we can build with all the

	28-11-2002 03:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Just a question of no particular personal concern, but will the Amazonian warrior ladies be remaining in the Capital when you retire from office?

My personal guards will be staying by my side at all times

	28-11-2002 03:41									#10
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quote: Originally posted by atawa 60.10.30 We have to build markets and banks anyway to keep our people happy, might as well use them And we can get enough beakers from all the caravans we can build with all the

For informational purposes... 60-10-30 would give us 572 gold minus 42 maintenance costs per turn, 20 turns per tech, and our current Luxury benefits. I can understand the value of the taxes, it would be like 2 completed Caravans each turn (quite a benefit in gold, but there would not be any beaker benefits for techs).

But I think that would leave us unable to reach our goal of a spaceship.

	28-11-2002 03:43									#11
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I think atawa would intend that we use those funds to rushbuild more caravans which would produce more gold and science.

	28-11-2002 03:52									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey I think atawa would intend that we use those funds to rushbuild more caravans which would produce more gold and science.

That would be one of many possibilites for the Citizens to decide. I am not against it, per se.

	28-11-2002 06:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by atawa 60.10.30 We have to build markets and banks anyway to keep our people happy, might as well use them

A very good point. Lower the luxury rate to 20%, leave science where it is or drop it 10%, and raise the tax rate correspondingly. Unless we're intending some sort of military campaign, we don't need to get dramatically ahead of the other Civs on research (ie markedly superior units), we just want to be comfortably ahead. Rush build those caravans.

By the way, is everyone aware that rush-buying something in stages is cheaper than rush-buying all at once (I mean in the same city window, not waiting for a turn inbetween)? For example, if a city has 10 shields in the production box, and is building a caravan (50 shields), changing production to a diplomat (30 shields), rush buying, then changing to caravan and rush-buying again costs less gold than if you had rush-built the whole 40 shields in 1 go. I think from memory it saves something like 4-5 gold on the above example.

	28-11-2002 07:30									#14
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You mean incremental rush buying, I was going diplo, catapult, caravan.

It is a great saving on a straight rushbuy.

	28-11-2002 20:54									#15
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Having followed Hydey in a couple succession games, I know his tendency is to leave as little unused GP in the treasury as possible when his turns are done.

In this game, I see no reason to raise taxes. Science rates must be kept high, and all possible happiness gains are desirable. The solution to the GP question is simple.

TRADE, TRADE, TRADE!
We've all commented on how well Hydey has done, and this is how it works. I say we continue on our present course, keeping taxes low, and maintain a strong camel-breeding program.

	28-11-2002 22:16									#16
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None of the above-

20 tax 60 science 20 luxuries should be fine if we do not need WLtHD to grow.

I would suggest 'filling' Capitol, and Avila either through Elvii instigating a celebration, or through food caravans from our burgeoning camel crop. New workers always help.

We might also research Theology to get Bach's. Fewer unhappy people will help.

	29-11-2002 01:36									#17
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Why only two cities may benefit of WLTPD ?
We need rushbuy aqueducs and sewer plans in more cities to grow under WLTPD !

	29-11-2002 02:05									#18
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quote: Originally posted by JCP Why only two cities may benefit of WLTPD ? We need rushbuy aqueducs and sewer plans in more cities to grow under WLTPD !

These actions are already on the way.

Although our new pres may push for a diferent tact.

	29-11-2002 17:41									#19
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quote: Originally posted by JCP Why only two cities may benefit of WLTPD ? We need rushbuy aqueducs and sewer plans in more cities to grow under WLTPD !

At the moment, only Avila and CAPITOL have as many or more Happy than Content Citizens (and no Unhappies), AND are Size 5+. Lack of Aquaducts and Sewer Systems isn't what is holding cities back from celebrating. They simply must become happier!

	29-11-2002 18:11									#20
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Let's do as in real life.
Set high tax rate then create a tax heaven accessible only to rich people...
(so the average tax rate should be 20%.... )

	29-11-2002 22:34									#21
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i'm a big fan of keeping the tax rate down and science up. i'd say as long as we keep making a small profit every turn, we don't need to raise the rate. especially when we keep getting the pay out from loads of caravans. put those extra percentages into science

	29-11-2002 23:24									#22
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Two questions:

How many marketplaces do we have? Do the cities that are not celebrating have marketplaces?

Secondly, can we crank the luxuries rate to increase happiness? I'm not afraid of 70 percent lux if that is what it takes to grow those cities. The loss of science is replenished through increased trade/workers.

With Cavebear's revelations, I will change my position to a 20 tax 30 science and 50 lux in order to extend WLtPD. 50 percent should be enough to put an empire this size into WLtPD.

to hear WLtPD stop so quickly.

	30-11-2002 04:54									#23
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Two questions: How many marketplaces do we have? Do the cities that are not celebrating have marketplaces? Secondly, can we crank the luxuries rate to increase happiness? I'm not afraid of 70 percent lux if that is what it takes to grow those cities. The loss of science is replenished through increased trade/workers. With Cavebear's revelations, I will change my position to a 20 tax 30 science and 50 lux in order to extend WLtPD. 50 percent should be enough to put an empire this size into WLtPD. to hear WLtPD stop so quickly.

We currently have Marketplaces in 16 of our 29 cities (but 6 of those cities are quite new), and 1 being built. At 50% Luxuries, we would still only have 6 cities. Unless we go on a Colosseum building binge, WLTPD has come to the end of the line for the moment. We've gotten all we can from it for now (and that was a LOT)!

	30-11-2002 05:25									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey You mean incremental rush buying, I was going diplo, catapult, caravan. It is a great saving on a straight rushbuy.

Great, just wanted to make sure we're hoarding all our precious gold