28-11-2002 10:01									#1
	Is PTW worth me getting for SP only? Tired of ads?

Ok, first up - sorry if this has been asked previously. I have had a (quick) scroll through the forums but most threads seem to be focusing on MP.
I am thinking of getting PTW - but will only be playing SP and was wondering if there are enough enhancements to justify getting it for SP only.
I read that they have updated the interface so there are not as many hidden keyboard shortcuts as there were with Civ3. Does this imply that the menuing system is a bit more like SMAC - with context sensitive right-click menus? If so - I would probably get it for this alone - as I really miss being able to right click on a unit and issue commands like in SMAC.
What about the AI? Has that been revamped in any way? I only play Civ3 on the middel to upper difficulty levels so don't have as much hassle with over-aggressive CPs as I might on the two highest levels.
Also read that the performance has been improved somewhat. I play mainly as a builder with occasional warring. I used to play on large/huge maps but found the slowdown late-game was too much - so now stick to small maps.
The extra units/civs don't interest me too much - but are a nice bonus. But the extra play modes such as Capture the Flag etc sound like fun.
Anyway - if the menu interface has improved, the performance on large/huge maps is better and the extra play modes fun - then I will probably get it.
thanks for your help.

	28-11-2002 10:11									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

More orders are available through interface buttons. These can clutter things up a bit (especially for workers) but can be turned off too.

The AI has been juiced a bit. A bit more agressive, and less likely to leave you alone if you are weak. More likely to declare war if you tell them to stuff an ultimatum.

Performance on mega maps has not gotten any better, from what I know. I do not think they can do that given the underlying code for the game which they are very, very unlikely to change. The only hope for some people with the mega maps may well be the next upgrade.

Keep in mind that many of the new victory conditions, like Capture the Flag, were designed with humans in mind. I doubt they overhauled the AI to be able to adapt to all of them. I strongly doubt it.

	28-11-2002 11:37									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I wouldn't put it past Soren to have tweaked the AI to handle the new victory conditions, either.

	28-11-2002 11:42									#4
	Tired of ads?

I would if they were not intended for AI games. Try Regicide with Victory locations turned on.

Let me know if you see a non-expantionist civ build a second city.

	29-11-2002 02:30									#5
	Re: Is PTW worth me getting for SP only? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by jeffds I am thinking of getting PTW - but will only be playing SP and was wondering if there are enough enhancements to justify getting it for SP only.

I believe so.
I don't MP and I'm extremely happy with PtW.
Heck, not having all the worker commands be some undocumented key-combination is wonderful in and of itself.

quote: I read that they have updated the interface so there are not as many hidden keyboard shortcuts as there were with Civ3. Does this imply that the menuing system is a bit more like SMAC - with context sensitive right-click menus? If so - I would probably get it for this alone - as I really miss being able to right click on a unit and issue commands like in SMAC.

It's been so long since I played SMAC, I can't say, but they did add command buttons for every possible command.

quote: What about the AI? Has that been revamped in any way?

I play Regent/Monarch and even at that level I have noticed the tweaks. Soren even chimed in on these forums to confirm that certain tweaks were made to the AI.

quote: Also read that the performance has been improved somewhat. I play mainly as a builder with occasional warring. I used to play on large/huge maps but found the slowdown late-game was too much - so now stick to small maps.

I don't have time to play on Huge/Large very often, so I can't speak to that, but I do know that, while the actual Loading and Map Generation seems slower, the actual game is as fast or faster than before on Standard Maps.

quote: The extra units/civs don't interest me too much - but are a nice bonus.

Not having to disband all those Swordsmen is great. I prefer the Horseman chain, personally, but being able to avoid "wasting" all those shields on Swordsmen is wonderful.

quote: But the extra play modes such as Capture the Flag etc sound like fun.

Y'know, I never even thought to try those in SP. The improvements, to me, are good enough that I haven't had to go looking for more ways to have fun.

quote: Anyway - if the menu interface has improved, the performance on large/huge maps is better and the extra play modes fun - then I will probably get it. thanks for your help.

I can't guarantee anything, but I and many others - that do not play MP - seem to be very very happy.

HTH

	29-11-2002 21:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Is PTW worth me getting for SP only?

IMO no.

But even if you dont want to play normal MP, you can always PBEM, and that definetely makes the game worth the money.

	29-11-2002 21:54									#7
	Got spare money?

8 new Civs to play against also, and more terrain, but have to move it to terrain folder, increased editor functions and some scenarios, but player made, and some do not like them, as certain files have to be moved around. CivIII and PTW are separate, in folders but in main CivIII folder, so either CivIII (with CD) or PTW (with CD) can be played, as they are separate.

New diplomacy and espinoge screen, and that takes a little getting use to. Must click, even when color changes with the option one is selecting, but it looks like it would be automatic, but is not, still have to click to choose the option to do -- like start an embassey.

Other terrain files included made by players and the terrain files like European (darker) and Watercolor(I am using now) and Snow Terrain (looks like snow on everything) and such.

	29-11-2002 22:39									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Raion ... and more terrain, but have to move it to terrain folder...

Actually, you don't need to move them. Just load the scenario that uses them instead of starting a new game. In addtion, the scenario search path feature will let you use these in any custom scenario without copying any files.

	30-11-2002 01:16									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Actually, you don't need to move them. Just load the scenario that uses them instead of starting a new game. In addtion, the scenario search path feature will let you use these in any custom scenario without copying any files.

Does "Quickstart" work with "Load Scenario"?
I like using a certain rule Mod, but I also like doing Random Quickstarts.

If I wanted to use, say Watercolor mod, does quickstart use the last used mod, or no?

	30-11-2002 03:27									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by ducki Does "Quickstart" work with "Load Scenario"? I like using a certain rule Mod, but I also like doing Random Quickstarts. If I wanted to use, say Watercolor mod, does quickstart use the last used mod, or no?

No, it doesn't. It uses the standard rules. The Watercolor Terrain Scenario though allows for all random starts just like the standard Start Game.

	30-11-2002 05:45									#11
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah, I just like, if my start position is really cruddy, to hit Ctrl+Shift+Q and then hit Enter(once Quickstart is set).

Sure would be nice if there was a Mod Quickstart feature.

	30-11-2002 07:05									#12
	Remove this text

Like you, I posted here asking about SP. Based on the feedback, I bought a copy and so far, after a couple of weeks, I think its worth it.

I've had a couple of good games, some bad starts and am still playing, setting other games aside. This is after I put CIV3 aside because it just didn't feel right. PTW is closer, although the diplomacy is still well behind SMAC.

I tend to play more of a builder (industrious, commercial - I'm doing well as Carthage) but have found the AI can react better to limited wars now and ally with you later.

So far, so good. (Not great, but good.)

	30-11-2002 09:16									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

SIMPLE ANSWER:

MP stinks and is very slow. But you don't care.

SP is slightly better with PTW based on all the reviews I have seen. But I always considered Civ 3 inherently flawed and not very good, so it doesn't matter to me. But if you liked Civ 3 after the final patch, if you do not think Firaxis ripped you off in the first place (I do), and have thirty bucks you don't need. . . then buy it. It depends entirely on your situation.

One warning: I have read reviews that said SP is a little slower (?). Not sure about that.

I for one will wait until it is in the $9.95 bin or packaged with something else. If I ever get it.

	01-12-2002 01:09									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Coracle SIMPLE ANSWER: MP stinks and is very slow. But you don't care.

Not after the 1.14f patch.

On the other way, how could you know if you haven't player PtW.

How?

	01-12-2002 07:33									#15
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by player1 On the other way, how could you know if you haven't player PtW. How?

Probably reads the first reviews, forms an opinion and then keeps stating it.

Personally, I prefer to keep up to date with what the latest status is and get relatively good feedback. That's why I posted here, read the responses and then bought a copy based on the fact I play SP almost exclusively.

I knew what I was getting, knew a patch was coming and have enjoyed it so far.

	01-12-2002 19:28									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yes, it suprises me that still, almost week after 1.14f patch, "PtW sucks crowd" is still talking about unplayable MP.

	01-12-2002 20:39									#17
	Tired of ads?

Well, since most of them haven't tried it they don't realize that it actually works now.

	01-12-2002 21:17									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

if your not sure jeffds download it it, thats what i did. It saves you from being dissapointed if you dont like it.

Then if you do like it... keep it. It takes quite a while to download though but if you dont mind waiting its ok

i would give the game about 41% out of 100%

harvre a good day

	01-12-2002 22:09									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Well, since most of them haven't tried it they don't realize that it actually works now.

I'd love to try it - unfortunately I can't. So I'm in the 'Inforgrames suck' camp.

	02-12-2002 08:41									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

PTW is already dropping in price - the sign of a sure product disaster and a scared company.

Amazon.com now has it for $25, five dollars already slashed!

Another twenty off and I might be interested.

As for MP "working", the reviews I've seen, such as at Gamespy.com, said it did not work at all before the patch causing numerous crashes, but now, after the patch, works extremely slowly, so slowly as to be useless.


Told ya Infogrames sucked.

Last edited by Coracle on 02-12-2002 at 09:10

	02-12-2002 14:55									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The simple answer is that I wouldn't go back to playing Civ3 without PTW if someone gave me $30 to delete it from the system and never reinstall it.

	02-12-2002 15:36									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm The simple answer is that I wouldn't go back to playing Civ3 without PTW if someone gave me $30 to delete it from the system and never reinstall it.

Exactly. Nicely put. The same for me (just that it cost me $40, due to the shipping costs - still well worth my money).

	02-12-2002 15:45									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Coracle PTW is already dropping in price - the sign of a sure product disaster and a scared company. Amazon.com now has it for $25, five dollars already slashed!

There is already a thread about this, please find it instead of bothering us with this discussion again. They cut the price of most games a few weeks after release.

	02-12-2002 18:18									#24
	Suffering from ads?

Guys, how come no one mentions the scenario editor? It was supposed to improve in PtW correct? Well how has it changed and has it improved?

	02-12-2002 20:52									#25
	Only play SP Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

For me the significant changes in PTW that have not been mentioned are:


Positives
1. Manhattan now can be a small wonder. Thus you can be one of the civs having nukes while others are still researching. Much more realistic than everyone having nukes because one civ got it. This was the only GW where everyone got the tech when one civ researched it.

2. Bomber ranges are increased. Standard for stealth bombers is now 15 tiles

3. Easier to see active trades on diplomacy screen

4.More editor preference options.

Negatives
Your preferences from previous version is not importable into current PTW. Thus have to painfully go thru all your prefences one by one. This took me several hours and several games to get back to my standard preferences.

== PF

	02-12-2002 23:05									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Coracle SIMPLE ANSWER: MP stinks and is very slow. But you don't care. SP is slightly better with PTW based on all the reviews I have seen. But I always considered Civ 3 inherently flawed and not very good, so it doesn't matter to me. But if you liked Civ 3 after the final patch, if you do not think Firaxis ripped you off in the first place (I do), and have thirty bucks you don't need. . . then buy it. It depends entirely on your situation. One warning: I have read reviews that said SP is a little slower (?). Not sure about that. I for one will wait until it is in the $9.95 bin or packaged with something else. If I ever get it.

Coracle = Imran Siddiqui ???

Basically, Imran Siddiqui was the idiot who kept on talking trash in the Korean civilization thread when he didn't know jack sh*t.

Don't you love it when people talk out of their arses about stuff they don't even know?

These are the guys who are wasting your eyeball use on the Internet.

	02-12-2002 23:48									#27
	Re: Only play SP Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by planetfall 2. Bomber ranges are increased. Standard for stealth bombers is now 15 tiles

No, no
It's 12 for Stelath Bomber and 8 for Stelath Fighter.

Plus, you can change numbers manualy in editor even to 100 tiles or more.

	02-12-2002 23:51									#28
	Re: Only play SP Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

dp

	02-12-2002 23:59									#29
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Coracle PTW is already dropping in price - the sign of a sure product disaster and a scared company. Amazon.com now has it for $25, five dollars already slashed! Another twenty off and I might be interested. As for MP "working", the reviews I've seen, such as at Gamespy.com, said it did not work at all before the patch causing numerous crashes, but now, after the patch, works extremely slowly, so slowly as to be useless. Told ya Infogrames sucked.

I heard that the review was based on the program "out of the box" and not on the patched version (1.04 or 1.14). The patched version works well.

	03-12-2002 00:36									#30
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

MP still bites. I can't play a complete game on my LAN without out of synch errors bogging me down (I shudder to think what Internet play might be like).

I can do a "hotseat" game without much trouble. Otherwise, you can forget the Multiplayer "feature."

As a standalone "upgrade" to Civ3 for the solo player, it's not bad, but might not be worth more than US $19.95. The new civs are nice, I like the advanced movement buttons (never could memorize all the hotkeys) and the new espionage screen is cool.

Still, I was hoping for an easier way to mod the game with new units (it's still not at all intuitive), and a much better AI diplomacy model (there's a thread with some great suggestions for this floating around now... Firaxis would do well to observe it).