30-11-2002 00:59									#31
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quote: Also - have you guys been following the discussion about the PBEM bug, and how everyone is going to have to be 'trusted' to only load the .sav file from the title screen? Yikes!!!

There is not much we can do about it. Just wait for the next patch.

	30-11-2002 01:36									#32
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Agreed. I am new to Apolyton posting. Having read a lot of the threads over the last year, I get a sense that the intent of the game will be respected - ie cheating won't be a problem. Am I right about this? You guys know some of the other folks and have been around awhile. I also see the pledges of 'following the rules' on the other threads.

	30-11-2002 01:41									#33
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me, im the person that will do anything to win, ie cheat if necassary, but i want cheat the others i dont know about.

	30-11-2002 01:44									#34
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Cheating is absolutely unacceptable.

	30-11-2002 07:05									#35
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Well isn't this interesting. I was looking through some of the threads earlier this evening, and on the Demogytiptca (or whatever - the German team) I gave a welcome and a hello to their team - partly beacuse they are new to Apolyton like me, and partly because I took German back in high school. So, I said hello and welcome, all the nice stuff. Intriduced myself as a member of Vox Controli, and said I would tak to them soon.

(I was thinking about the discussion above where three civs end up on a continent... let's make friends now with the new folks.)

And lo and behold, the next post is from Meshelic of Gathering Storm, introducing their foreign miinister and saying they will be in touch soon. Looks like the courting has begun.... and it looks like the new kids on the block have some of the establishment worried.

	30-11-2002 07:36									#36
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Flash - saw the thread you started regarding culturally linked civs. Answer is clearly NO. Which means my concerns stated above about starting in Asia are irrelevant. It is only a matter of the traits and the unique unit.

Wittlich... Dissident.... where are you???

	30-11-2002 07:47									#37
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Meshelic has also introduced himeself to the Role Players, as have Neu D. It looks like the dance has begun.

Should we get on the dance floor. As I seem to be the only one willing to put more than two sentences back to back, I would be up for doing so. But it would have to be with the One Voice's approval. ie you guys. And I would need to know what 'theme' or 'message' to deliver. Or do you just want to lay quiet for awhile.

	30-11-2002 07:54									#38
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I think that once we get a controller going that we will speak more

if I was controller I would tell you to go make freinds (as leader I think you shold go make freinds)

I know that I personally will be gone sunday, and so will not be able to take part

hopefully someone else will be

Jon Miller

	30-11-2002 07:58									#39
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Beta, until we have a controller, feal free to be freindly to our competitors

don't try to be atagonistic

once we elect someone, than things will be clearer (I Think we shold ellect someone now)

Jon Miller

	30-11-2002 09:05									#40
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Ok - I have been playing the Celts here for awhile. Not impressed. Then again - maybe its me having an off night.

I can go with the Persians. Diss and Witt may be away for the U.S. thanksgiving. We can't wait too much longer to let the organizers know about our civ. Do you want to set a deadline - say 10am tomorrow morning - that's GMT-5 time. Or do you want to make the call now.

So - who wants to start. If you are away Jon, I nominate Flash or Eli.

If we get that decided - I'll go talk.

	30-11-2002 09:19									#41
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Panzer32 from GoW approached us on the other thread. I said we would get back to him shortly - that I was accessing the One Voice.

If others want to chat with us, tell them to use the Vox Controli civ thread started by Flash.

I also looked in on Dissident's previous choices on that thread - he said Celts - if we wanted to warmonger. Japan and he mentioned Aztecs and Babs. Guess we wait for his vote. Or Jon and I could change ours to Persia and make it all academic.

I'm crashing now. Tomorrow.

	30-11-2002 10:01									#42
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I am here. Was out-of-town - Thanksgiving and all.

	30-11-2002 10:05									#43
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yah, I was gone most of the last 4 days also

Jon Miller

	30-11-2002 18:15									#44
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Eli - what's up? You said in the other thread that no one wanted to be foreign minister so you got it by default.

Did I miss something here?

I've been chatting up Neu D, and your note followed mine in the GoW, or GS thread - can't remember which. I wasn't assuming I have the job either. I was just killing time before the game began, and trying to get in the mood - so to speak.

Maybe we need to discuss roles here. Who is the controller (as Jon asked above) , and who is the foreign minister - for want of a better term - I actually think the foreign minister should be called the One Voice, in keeping with the theme.

I would suggest we do not need any other roles/positions beyond that. The remainder of the team becomes advisors in general to the controller and the One Voice.

With only 6 of us, this should be tight enough to work well. What do you guys think?

	30-11-2002 18:18									#45
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Welcome back Witt - trust the turkey was good.

Can you please read the dialogue above regarding what civ we want to be - and please vote. 3 votes - First to third choces. Thanks.

	01-12-2002 00:20									#46
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Ok, here's my 3 votes:

1. Vikings
2. Persia
3. Iroquios

But the poll looks like Persia has it.

	01-12-2002 02:49									#47
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Yup - without Diss' votes - its Persia 8, Vikings 7.

(Well the Vikings were having a bad year anyway...)

And I am leaning towards Persia too, and I didn't even vote for them.

Jon - want to let MarkG know. We also need the following.

Name of team - Vox Controli

Civ - Persia

Noun -???? VC?? Voxians??

Adjective ???

Title of Leader - Controller

Name of the Leader - does Jon's name go here??

Colour ????

PIC - the V.

	01-12-2002 08:29									#48
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Jon, Flash, Eli, Witt- in the absence of comments or suggestions from anyone else - I suggest:

Name of team - Vox Controli

Civ - Persia

Noun - Voxians

Adjective - Voxian

Title of Leader - Controller

Name of the Leader - The One Voice (or Jon Miller - not sure what they want here)

Colour - Roman Red (goes best with the icon)

PIC - the V

Some of the crowd on the other thread are getting restless that we haven't finalized these things yet. And the game does start tomorrow.

So, can one of you submit these - or at least say - 'OK' - and I will submit tomorrow morning.

Also - Jon isn't here Sunday - so who starts. I suggested Flash or Eli. Any thoughts?

Sorry if I sound impatient - I'm tired. And with that, I'm going to bed. G'night.

	01-12-2002 13:17									#49
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sorry I'm late. I forgot to check in last night.

	01-12-2002 19:38									#50
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It's Sunday!!! Game Time!!!

Jon has asked that I start a discussion regarding the controller. Some, but not all have, asked that I start the game as Jon is not here. I'm not hung up on this.

Here's my qualifications - I play Civ III a lot. Don't we all. I have played up to Deity - but I don't enjoy the game at that level because it gets very singular - you can't keep up with the AI or build wonders, so the the only approach is warring right from the get go, and using the vassal state methodology outlined in the strategy threads here on Apolyton.

Yes - although I am new to posting - I have been reading stuff here for a year. Have them all printed and in binders - they are well read.

I generally play at Monarch - just because it lets you use different approaches to the game. I did not play Civ I or II, but have OD'd somewaht on Civ III. I played a lot of board wargames when I was younger. Yup - the ones with the little card board counters.

My suggested start - see what tile we have - unless a move of ONE space will get us to a river or max food production (eg wheat) - I say we plant and build. Warrior first out. Then worker. Then warrior, then settler. The starting workers' first objective is to build a road to a new city site so that the settler can get there fast and get the city going. And yes - that is the advantage of industrious. We build those roads faster. I like to be an agressive starter in terms of exploring - and getting cities out there.

In terms of the PBEM game - I figure once we knew the start time, and the game was sent to the first controller - then they would quickly send it around to the others for a quick boo, and a quick discussion - eg - send the worker building a road this way - or that - send the warrior east exploring, etc. That kind of thing. It wouldn't make sense between each turn obviously - but at key points for discussion.

But that means folks will have to be around.

If someone else is dying to start- heh OK. But at least let's talk (yes - that means more than one sentence) about the proposed start. Let me know.

I have also submitted the team description to the authorities. I chose Roman Red - because it matches our icon - and no one seemed to object. Here's what I submitted:

Name of team - Vox Controli
Civ - Persia
Noun - Voxians
Adjective - Voxian
Title of Leader - Controller
Name of the Leader - The One, or The One Voice
Colour - Roman Red
PIC - the V

	01-12-2002 19:44									#51
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yes

could you check out the other threads here?

and comment?

also, I think you should be the first controller

Jon Miller

	01-12-2002 19:51									#52
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Jon - I have been keeping a watch on the other threads regarding the start etc. I put us on the list as starting fourth - I have no idea if this was official or just someone eager to get going. Presumably Markos and the powers that be will be setting us up - they may have already done so last night - in which case - who knows what colour we will be. No big deal.

I also saw a note somewhere that Markos was joining the game as an eighth team - as the Greeks. We will see.

	01-12-2002 20:18									#53
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At the risk of boring everyone to death - we also need to discuss team meachanics. To start the discussion, I have reposted Jon's original notes on how the team might work.

Jon's Notes:

I would like to have a small team (not many more than 5)

I think one person should get to play for some amount of time, and post the results of everyturn in the secrent team forum (at elast I think that there are secert team forums), the player could be subject to no confidence votes

everyone who does not play would get +1 vote for who get to be player next time (subject to some limitation), this would insure that everyone gets to play often

in order to keep coninuty going and to give the player the max ammount of choices, the general will of the team would be decided upon at the same time as the player, and as long as confidence in the player continues, nothing is done until the next time things go up for vote (say 10 turns later)

these would just be my ideas for how to do this, I think it would do a lot better than how some demo games I have seen have done

I view it as more of a tag team approach with the added extras of a noconfidence possibility (to keep someone from driving the civ into the ground) and some discussion every certain number of turns on what the goals are

Jon Miller [/QUOTE]

To re-cap Jon's proposed governance system:

Someone starts - after the set play period - there is a vote for the next controller.- the person who started gets 1 vote. All the others now get 2. After that period, the controller would have one vote, the controller from the first period would have two, everybody else 3.

Non-confidence motions can be issued at any time - (subject to reason I suppose). Everybody gets one vote. If it passes - election is held immediately.

I generally like the idea as well. It also fits with our current team name and theme.

So - some questions:

1. Does a controller play for 10 turns - or do we say 15, or 20?

2. How about a two term limit - as per the US president, as opposed to the Canadian dictator, er, Prime Minister?

3. How often is the controller obligated to inform and talk to the team - a) constantly, b) every five turns c) whenever it makes sense to - as determined by the controller or d) never - if he feels like it.

(I vote for c)

4. How do we handle foreign relations - do we have a separate position that does the chatting and negotaitions - or is it handled by the controller.

5. Does he, or they, need to consult with the team before negotiating?

6. And if we do have a separate Voice for Foreign Affairs (VFA), how do we determine that position. Votes. One each. Appointed by controller. Previous controller becomes the VFA???

7. And most importantly - in the votes - can you vote for yourself .... hmmm. I would say yes - that is the power of not be the controller for awhile - you WILL get to play.

8. In the non-confidence votes - does the current controller get a vote. I would say NO, simply because we have 6 on the team, and we would need to ensure no ties.

9 Speaking of which - how do we break ties in the elections (recount Florida?). I am going to suggest that 1 is added to either the controller, the VFA, or the team member(s) who have not played in the longest period - one of those three.

10. Or how about a new position - VIM - Voice of Internal Matters - the last Controller - the VIM would ensure voting and non-confidence issues are handled as per team rules, and would break any ties.

There - that's it. Respond by numbers , please.

	01-12-2002 22:36									#54
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I do disagree with building a worker so early (we should start with one). Remember we are industrious. Rapid expansion is what I stress, If we can complete a settler after reaching size 3 then I say we build it.

	01-12-2002 23:55									#55
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no early building of worker

1 10 turns
2 no lmit
3 c
no seperate positions
7 can vote for self
8 no
9 controller gets tie breaking vote

Jon Miller