29-11-2002 11:08									#1
	Heliopolis is gorgeous! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

When this site was originally proposed I mentioned that it had the possibility of an Iron Works. It already had iron and every single remaining tile in it's sphere of influence was mountain, hill, or jungle (now mostly cleared to grass). All possible coal tiles. And there it is!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=69159

feast your eyes on the map in reply#2 in linked thread.

By my count, there is enough grassland food to allow full exploitation of all those gorgeous hills. Heck there is even a river in the area so it can build Hoover's!!!

The BARE shield potential for this city is 55 or 57 depending on whether we can extract one tile from Greek influence. 12 pop potential is 35 BARE shields.

Assuming Iron works, factory and Hoovers
full pop
220 to 228 before corruption
Add mfg plant when available
275 to 285 before corruption


OK E_T
Give us a City Development plan for this 21 karat (pop) gem

And this is why I wanted to delay our Capitol move. If Heliopolis could build the Iron Works, the Capitol had to be close by.

And it is now imperative that Khufu build his army and have a victory. The only things that a 200+ shield count city can build efficiently is ARMIES, WONDERS, and SPACE SHIPS.

	29-11-2002 11:40									#2
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What is this city building now? If we can, ruch build the most expensive thing to build that we can then switch it to Iron Works IMMEDIATELY! I have had coal and Iron in the same city radius a couple of times and just before I was going to start building IW, either the Iron or Coal dissappeared preventing me from building it.

This is the PERFECT city for this small wonder, lets not waste the oppertunity.

	29-11-2002 13:27									#3
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Don't forget, Germany can build it too in Hamburg.

[EDIT] FYI, Heliopolis is building a Cathedral at the moment. It currently produces 4 shields per turn after Waste. The most expencive thing that it can currently build that's rushable is Colosseum at 120 Sheilds. It would cost 404L to rush to 120 and it would have 180 left to build (300 total for Iron Works). It would take 45 turns after that to complete the Iron Works.

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 29-11-2002 at 13:45

	29-11-2002 13:30									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Does that matter? I thought small wonders are available for all civs, I mean, all can build one.

	29-11-2002 15:31									#5
	Re: Heliopolis is gorgeous! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by canyontree Assuming Iron works, factory and Hoovers full pop 220 to 228 before corruption Add mfg plant when available 275 to 285 before corruption

Now if we had a palace or FP in Macross city, as I proposed about 1000 years ago, and did not listen to certain people, who proposed a nice grassland capital instead...

	29-11-2002 15:47									#6
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You can't rush something if you want to build a wonder
(or an army?). If you have 'illegal' shields, from forestry, disbanding units or rush buying, then you'll find that wonders are greyed out for that city, so that it can't change to a wonder (certainly true for great wonders, and I think it is true for small ones too). So you either sue a leader to rush, or build it completely the hard way.

	29-11-2002 16:11									#7
	Tired of ads?

Fine... don't rush before switching. Just build it soon before the oppertunity dissappears (with the coal or Iron being exhausted).

As for the Palace move, I thought that the repoll for the Palace move to Marcoss City passed. I know I didn't vote in that poll, but I still agree with the idea.

	29-11-2002 16:29									#8
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Fine... don't rush before switching. Just build it soon before the oppertunity dissappears (with the coal or Iron being exhausted).

Fortunately, it doesn't disappear. Not even if both deplete.

	29-11-2002 20:06									#9
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Fine... don't rush before switching. Just build it soon before the oppertunity dissappears (with the coal or Iron being exhausted). As for the Palace move, I thought that the repoll for the Palace move to Marcoss City passed. I know I didn't vote in that poll, but I still agree with the idea.

THe Poll was only conclusive that We did not want to move it to Timeline and that we need to re-explore the issue. I had asked the Senate to appoint a new committee to fully explore and Re-recommend a new location for the palace. THey haven't done squat, because of the PTW drain.

E_T

	30-11-2002 05:35									#10
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quote: Don't forget, Germany can build it too in Hamburg

I hope they are! It will take significntly longer than 16 turns to complete, effectively removing Hamburg from making any war tools before or during the invasion.

	02-12-2002 21:37									#11
	Tired of ads?

Iron Works is a small wonder; both us and the Germans can build it.

Also as a small wonder that produces culture we can't capture the German Iron Works. (Even if he capture that city, the Iron Works is auto-razed)

I sugest perhaps rushing whatever Heliopolis is already building and next turn starting the Iron Works.

We can then have it build a Hospital, Factory, and then start saving some shields for Hoover Dam via Palace. (Perhaps the Palace will take few enough turns to actually build there.)

	02-12-2002 23:03									#12
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The problem with that, is that Heliopolis has about 66% Production Waste. THis will be better with WLAD after the Cathedral is built. With all of the Grassland around it Irrigated & RR'ed, it will have very stunning Growth after the Aqueduct is built. After it gets up to higher sizes, the Hills will have most of the mountains mined & RR'ed and we can shift work from growth to production. The Marketplace will keep it at WLAD and it will have about 45% Waste with WLAD. We should have the IW in a relatively short time afterwards.

E_T

	04-12-2002 01:44									#13
	Re: Heliopolis is gorgeous! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by canyontree ! Assuming Iron works, factory and Hoovers full pop 220 to 228 before corruption Add mfg plant when available 275 to 285 before corruption OK E_T Give us a City Development plan for this 21 karat (pop) gem And this is why I wanted to delay our Capitol move. If Heliopolis could build the Iron Works, the Capitol had to be close by.

(don't forget nukes)
We may not want to make it a 200+shield city anytime soon. First, there's a limit on the number of armies we can build, and a limit to their effectiveness, so we might want to keep Helipolis at a size that produces 1 unit/turn.

However, it seems Helipolis is a great candidate for rush building, the Cathedral, Aqueduct, and Police Station. (Although I believe rush building isn't cost effective often, targeted rush building is, especially with all the multipliers available.)