29-11-2002 13:03									#1
	Great Leader do they grow on trees ? Tired of ads?

Last night I was playing a few turns on my current game as Rome. Its somewhere in the 1800's and I am miles ahead of the pack in tech and power etc. The war I had fought previously had been very long and tough fighting against Egypt which got me an average number of GL's. In fact the GL generation had been normal for the whole game to date.

Ive now been fighting the Aztecs for approx 7 turns, the idiots kept demanding stuff and declaring war on me right through this game so I had decided to invade and teach them a lesson. I assembled a fleet and did a quick landing and took a city on the coast with two spices. I had MA and MI and they were still equiped with Cav and Inf.

Over the next few turns they sent waves of troops to try and recapture the city all which fell to my tanks. I offered them peace and they accepted only to declare war on me 2 turns later when I told them to leave my land. At this point in the game I saved and left it for a few days.

Right then back to last night, I had now rushed an airport and had airlifted masses of tanks and MI's into the city along with my now aging bombers and several sparkly new stealth bombers which I used to damage the stacks of Infantry they kept sending to attack me.
following the bombing I used my tanks to finish them off. I had about thirty elite MA and wasnt surprised when I got a GL as I had no wonders etc that needed to be built I decided to make an army with it.

I attacked with the next elite and was amazed to get another GL, I repeated this process and on this turn alone six of my elites had been promoted and I now had six new armies. Not only did my elites amaze me but every veteran became elite in the process.

Well after I had stopped grinning to myself I set about the next stack of fresh victims kindly delivered by the Aztecs during there turn. You may not believe this yourselves but the same thing happened. I made sure to turn each leader into an army straight away so as to allow the chance of another and by the time I had finished this turn I had 10 new armies. I was running out of elites to get promotion.

In a whole year of playing this game I have never seen anything like this before !!

	29-11-2002 13:17									#2
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I'll say you got lucky...

	29-11-2002 15:02									#3
	Re: Great Leader do they grow on trees ? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus In a whole year of playing this game I have never seen anything like this before !!

Presto, go straight to a buy a Lottery ticket or play with Bingo: you should be wasting all your luck with Civ III instead of pointing it to relevant use

	29-11-2002 19:23									#4
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go to the horse races, or get a lottery ticket, or something like that...like Adm said, you don't need to be pointing your luck to something relevant



Lucky!!! I usually only get 2-3-4 GLs per game!

	29-11-2002 19:29									#5
	Re: Re: Great Leader do they grow on trees ? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith Presto, go straight to a buy a Lottery ticket or play with Bingo: you should be wasting all your luck with Civ III instead of addressing it to relevant use

... too late... and now the big wheel of fortune is spinning again....

Your winning ticket has been exchanged with some GLs in Civ III...

That's life...

	30-11-2002 01:14									#6
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That is a rare feat. I have only had two games that spawned more than 8 leaders. I admit I rarely play map bigger than std any more. Those two games were both on huge maps, one had 28 and the other 55. I was at war nearly the whole game with most civs, so I had many battles every turn. IIRC I made 6 leaders in one turn. I am happy with 5 in a game for the most part. Less is bad, more is good and not common for me.

	30-11-2002 02:14									#7
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It seems I over estimated the number from the two turns, I said 10 GL's earlier it was actually 8. I forgot that I already had two armies back on my continent.

Anyways Ive got a save here from after the first turn, 1828 is the date and the second batch of Aztecs awaits your judgement. If you have a go at this try not to be tempted to plough on into enemy territory just see how many of these GL's from heaven you can get. You need to sort out production a little to gain some extra gold and of course more tanks to promote. Ive been putting the promoted elites into the new armies to get them out of way. Make sure you convert your leaders into armies straight away so as to be eligable for another.

The flow of Aztecs does begin to fall after a while but they keep coming. For some reason he wants peace but is not prepared to leave your territory.

Try this out and let me know how many you got Im going now to do the same.

Attachment: caesar of the romans leaders from heaven ! 1828 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	02-12-2002 03:34									#8
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question

a GL can be produced by a victorious army with elites on it?

	02-12-2002 04:05									#9
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Nope... no GLs from Armies. You can get one by defeating an Army though.

	02-12-2002 12:37									#10
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Well I dont know if anyone tried this but I got a total of 12 GL's from about 6 turns against the Aztecs then they dried up, but Ive continued the game and have now encountered German Panzers and Ive started to get a rush of GL's again. Another four from 2 turns so Im planning an Invasion of their territory to see if I can get some more.

I did use some GL's for wonders throughout the game and I would estimate the GL count for this game to be approx 23 to date about 1860 ish.

	02-12-2002 15:49									#11
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Wah, is there something wrong with the game? That's unnatural!

	02-12-2002 17:24									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun Wah, is there something wrong with the game? That's unnatural!

Its not unnatural, only unlikely...
...just as it is unlikely to get 20 heads when you flip a coing 20 times.

But the 20 heads has the exact chance of happening as any other single head/tail combination, i.e. a little less than 1 in 1 million.

This means that if 10 million people each flip a coing 20 times, you can expect that 10 of the get 20 heads.

So, with civ3 as with flipping a coin, since the results are random, even the very unlikely combinations will happen once in a while.

There would be something wrong if a low chance combination could never happen though.

	02-12-2002 23:24									#13
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Thats true enough, Ive played games before now and got no GL's so this kind of makes up for that.

BTW got another two earlier today taking the total now to 25.

	02-12-2002 23:39									#14
	Tired of ads?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a major factor here was your use of Modern Armor. MA are the ultimate leader-generators. They have 3 attacks per turn. If you win 2 consecutive battles, you get a guaranteed promotion, so each MA will become elite quickly, provided that you have enough cannonfodder (sounds like you do). Now, I will admit that 6+ leaders on one turn is pretty crazy, but I can see how it happened, what with hordes of elite MA and the Heroic Epic.

-Arrian

	05-12-2002 07:40									#15
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3 more! Two against the Japs and one the Russians. 28 now has anybody else ever had this many ? or more from a game.

	05-12-2002 08:39									#16
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vxma1 had a ridiculous game with 40-50 GLs.

	05-12-2002 10:34									#17
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Yup, 55 to be exact. One other time was I think 28, no other time have I ever had more than 10.

	06-12-2002 13:52									#18
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30 now! has anyone else tried the save and got similar results?

Its about 1890 now so theres still a long way to go. I think Ive got 18 Armies now, Ive used some of them to rush Airports etc and late game wonders.

	06-12-2002 14:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus 30 now! has anyone else tried the save and got similar results?

I always play on huge maps and I always got the maximum number of GL by 1900 AD: +/- 30.

Having played 2 games with PTW, I am under the impression that the generosity of GL is over....

	12-12-2002 14:55									#20
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A funny thing happened to me yesterday.

I was egypt, year was 1825 BC. I was in war with Americans. They sent some warriors and spearmen to my territory. I attacked an elite warrior with my regular archer. My archer lost (that wasn't so interesting) but the american warrior produced a great leader!!!! From the first battle between our countries!!!

Has anyone seen this kind of quick leader production?

	12-12-2002 15:24									#21
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Only happens to AI

	12-12-2002 18:04									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon I always play on huge maps and I always got the maximum number of GL by 1900 AD: +/- 30. Having played 2 games with PTW, I am under the impression that the generosity of GL is over....

Correction, in my last game (PTW) they were all back.

	12-12-2002 18:28									#23
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo A funny thing happened to me yesterday. I was egypt, year was 1825 BC. I was in war with Americans. They sent some warriors and spearmen to my territory. I attacked an elite warrior with my regular archer. My archer lost (that wasn't so interesting) but the american warrior produced a great leader!!!! From the first battle between our countries!!! Has anyone seen this kind of quick leader production?

Yes, I have. In a regent game about a half year ago, the romans declared war against me with one single legionary inside my territory. I attacked it with an elite swordman and got a leader. I desperately needed my Forbidden Palace then, so getting the leader was great. Soon after the war was over

	12-12-2002 22:14									#24
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An early GL if your lucky enough to get one can seal the victory of the game itself.

	13-12-2002 01:39									#25
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Yes it can. Soooo powerful. See "A Strategic Choice" in the strategy forum. I posted a game in which I got a leader in 1025bc. I played it out using the leader to rush the Pyramids, while another poster used it to build a pretty optimal forbidden palace ASAP. His was the more powerful option (as I suspected it would be). But both were huge advantages.

I recently lost such a game due to my autosave mysteriously being shut off (I didn't get defeated, I just literally lost the game). I generated a leader from my one - and only - elite unit combat: an elite warrior taking down a regular archer (I attacked the archer). I forget the date, but it was early. I was holding the leader to rush the FP in Madrid when I captured it (Madrid was well-placed for the FP and had the Pyramids too). I always have the autosave on, so I assumed it would be there... 4000bc - 50AD down the tubes. *sigh* That hurt. I was so excited: that game was going to be awesome.

-Arrian

	13-12-2002 02:04									#26
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quote: I recently lost such a game due to my autosave mysteriously being shut off

This ain't a mystery. It comes from playing PBEM games. Unfortunately, the game takes the setting of any loaded game instantly in your preferences. So if you started a game, after you just played a PBEM turn, it could be started with preference settings from another player. I also noticed, somebody in our Minitourney gang plays "ironman", with autosave off. I suspect it's alexman, although I have no prove .

I have an empty 4000bc save with the sole purpose to be loaded before I set up a new game, in order to restore my preferences.

This is, of course, a flaw and should be fixed.

	06-07-2003 16:15									#27
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BUMP for the benefit of the people posting in a thread about a lack of great leaders

	07-07-2003 23:49									#28
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Since I'm not a warmonger at heart, I never got more than 5-6 GLs per game. There was only one game where I got 12 GLs, but I was in constant war almost since the beginning.

	10-07-2003 02:33									#29
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Question was, "Do Great Leaders grow on trees?

Answer: YES, especially if you save the game before each attack and then reload when you don't get the outcome you desire.

	10-07-2003 04:10									#30
	Remove this text

I need to find that tree as I am in the year 2000 in AU402 and have not gotten a single leader.
I have had as many 17 civs declare war on me at anyone point in time.