30-11-2002 08:04									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I thought Fez was supposed to be banned untill next friday.

I got a way of convincing people...

	30-11-2002 08:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Pinochet was a stadium filling murderous, economically bankrupt shithead. Franco was also a retard who wrote a book during the Spanish Civil War, instead of being a real general.

OH NO, Fezzie is gonna chew you out.

	30-11-2002 08:07									#33
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I already did. Evil apparently is clueless.

	30-11-2002 08:10									#34
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Oooo, I'm terrified. Still its probably a good thing that Franco came to power.
His work brutalising the Catalonians and Andalucians gave us the cheap labour that build those holiday resorts that provide a decent way of getting rid of the proletariat during the summer months

Franco was stupid, brutal and led spain nowhere. Its as simple as that.

	30-11-2002 08:11									#35
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Pah, as clueless as the raving Moor who thinks he's Spanish.

	30-11-2002 08:12									#36
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Says the leftist. 'Nuf said. This isn't your country. So you cannot speak for other people.

	30-11-2002 08:13									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Pah, as clueless as the raving Moor who thinks he's Spanish.

What a racist slur! I am not moorish btw.

	30-11-2002 08:17									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Fez What a racist slur! I am not moorish btw.

Fez, you crack me up.

	30-11-2002 08:20									#39
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I'd say Castro was (is) the best of the lot. Cuba is only as poor as it is because of the US embargo. Granted, not everything Castro has done is great, but I'd certainly say the good outweighs the bad.

	30-11-2002 08:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Fez, you crack me up.

Why does everybody always have to gang up on me? When is it fez turn to go after people?

	30-11-2002 08:21									#41
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Castro and Tito.

	30-11-2002 08:22									#42
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Blah, blah blah. So by your reasoning, man from Andalus, you can't comment on British history, or American history. What a fool.

	30-11-2002 08:23									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Blah, blah blah. So by your reasoning, man from Andalus, you can't comment on British history, or American history. What a fool.

When do I comment on British or American history? Not anymore. I intend to stay consistent.

	30-11-2002 08:24									#44
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I'll hold you to that.

	30-11-2002 08:31									#45
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Fez, do you know why you were banned in the first place? Stop threadjacking!

I'd have to say Musharaff for his role after 9/11 and his work in combatting Islamic Extremism in his country, as well as avoiding war with a belligerent India. Chiang Kai Shek too for trying to stop communism, and at least preventing communism in Taiwan.

	30-11-2002 08:37									#46
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I didn't thread jack this.

I have one thing to say about Chiang Kai Shek, if he was left control of Mainland China... it is possible the mainland could be as rich GDP per captia wise as Taiwan. The Chinese Nationalists, or Kuomintang really did a lot for Taiwan's economy... making it one of the Asian tigers if I am not mistaken?

	30-11-2002 08:40									#47
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Musharaf is by far the best of the bunch. Saved the country from turning to Islamists, and has initiated some minor democratic reforms.

	30-11-2002 08:48									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I didn't thread jack this. I have one thing to say about Chiang Kai Shek, if he was left control of Mainland China... it is possible the mainland could be as rich GDP per captia wise as Taiwan. The Chinese Nationalists, or Kuomintang really did a lot for Taiwan's economy... making it one of the Asian tigers if I am not mistaken?

Yea, but he was rediculously brutal, and Taiwan didn't begin to truly flourish until it brcame more democratic.

	30-11-2002 08:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Yea, but he was rediculously brutal, and Taiwan didn't begin to truly flourish until it brcame more democratic.

But the groundwork was set and the commies were prevented from ruining that groundwork. Sometimes the dictator has to be brutal.... the ends justify the means.

	30-11-2002 09:29									#50
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I suppose I can't have Cyrus, Augustus or Alfred the Great, or am I being a little old-fashioned?

	30-11-2002 10:49									#51
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It depends on what criteria you are judging them. For example; Two of Hitlers main goals were harsh rascism towards the jews and the reclimation of German territory lost. He managed to achieve both of these ( and then some ) before he got his ass kicked so by his own standards he did a pretty good job. By everyone else ( with any marbles ) he didn't.

Why is Fidel up if Napoleon isn't? To my mind they both did fantastic jobs but if one is up there they both should, they took power in a similar way.

Anyone tell me what Saddam has done wrong? ( Apart from invade Kuwait but... PLEASE ).

	30-11-2002 12:41									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Odin So what, Provost, Lenin didn't know Stalin would become such a b@st@rd.

He created a system in which men like Stalin could come to power. Do you think Lenin was above killing people he thought were in his way? Just because Lenin wasn't a psycopath doesnt make him a good person. Compared to Stalin, most dictators pale, but it doesnt lessen what they did so don't make excusses for him.

And correct me if im wrong, but Stalin held most of his postions because Lenin knew what kind of man he was and figured he could put Stalin in powerless postions. I'm sure che may correct me

	30-11-2002 13:30									#53
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The only good thing a dictator could do would be to create a free country, with inviolable individual rights. Since none of those dictators did that, they were by definition not good in any way.

Actually, I'll take that back - the one good thing many of them have done is die.

	30-11-2002 13:53									#54
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Franco was rubbish, he didn't even have the guts to join the Germans and Italians even when they were winning.

That stupid uniform and general misery he caused the country were negatives aswell

	30-11-2002 14:49									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Why does everybody always have to gang up on me? When is it fez turn to go after people?

Point 1- In this example, because you started the ad hominems by calling people "stupid leftist".

Point 2- You do that in every debate you get into, so it seems you think it's always your turn.

	30-11-2002 14:53									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Seneca I suppose I can't have Cyrus, Augustus or Alfred the Great, or am I being a little old-fashioned?

Alfred the Great isn't the best example because Anglo-Saxon Britain was surprisingly democratic. Although he couldn't have been removed from power as king, he was put there by choice among the aeldormen and thegns rather than through strict primogeniture. There was also an organised system of representation even down to a village level.

It's not a democracy by modern standards, but for the dark ages it was pretty enlightened.

	30-11-2002 14:56									#57
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as enlightened as your average serf could want?

	30-11-2002 15:01									#58
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quote: the ends justify the means.

So Stalin was OK?

Vote for yer favorite by pressing it, then clicking the yellow thingie after loading.

	30-11-2002 15:07									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki I'd say Castro was (is) the best of the lot. Cuba is only as poor as it is because of the US embargo. Granted, not everything Castro has done is great, but I'd certainly say the good outweighs the bad.

Move to Cuba and start an anti Castro party or say the same things people in the US say about Bush. Then after a year lets see if you can say that Castro is ok.

	30-11-2002 15:08									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Move to Cuba and start an anti Castro party or say the same things people in the US say about Bush. Then after a year lets see if you can say that Castro is ok.

Uh - I don't think anyone is saying Castro is wonderful, just that he is better tahn the others on the list.