30-11-2002 11:29									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka You've stumbled upon the worst possible outcome which quite probably happens the most often. Charming, no?

OK... i'm confused now. What the hell's the difference. You don't know... they don't tell... listen if you're the one that slept with HIM/HER/IT/THEY you obviously don't have any problems with how they look or act or screw or don't have high enough standards to care in which case... what's the difference.

	30-11-2002 11:30									#32
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quote: So what you're saying is you have no possible explanation for how they'd find out?

In the cases that they do find out? Of course. As a relationship grows, deeper layers of one's personality are revealed through empathetic discussion - you should know this. Many may hide the truth even after the relationship is over (I honestly couldn't set a range at what portion), but many tell - at one point or another. It happens

	30-11-2002 11:31									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka ...spiritual essence ....

If you are being serious then you are exaggerating more than a little. Spiritualism transcends gender.

	30-11-2002 11:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba OK... i'm confused now. What the hell's the difference. You don't know... they don't tell... listen if you're the one that slept with HIM/HER/IT/THEY you obviously don't have any problems with how they look or act or screw or don't have high enough standards to care in which case... what's the difference.

It's absolutely disgusting either way. Are you saying there's no difference if you never find out you were drugged and date-raped?

	30-11-2002 11:32									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka In the cases that they do find out? Of course. As a relationship grows, deeper layers of one's personality are revealed through empathetic discussion - you should know this. Many may hide the truth even after the relationship is over (I honestly couldn't set a range at what portion), but many tell - at one point or another. It happens

Did you have a bit too much fun with a lady-boy? Is that what brought this on?

	30-11-2002 11:33									#36
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My, what a charming little coincidence. I had Thanksgiving dinner with my best buddy from high school. He's now a woman . . . and one of the finest individuals you'd ever want to meet.

	30-11-2002 11:34									#37
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If you want my honest opinion, Zylka, if you're being serious -- I think you and your attitude are far greater a threat to far more people than any transvestite ever will.

	30-11-2002 11:35									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka It's absolutely disgusting either way. Are you saying there's no difference if you never find out you were drugged and date-raped?

Wait, wait, wait. Drugged and date raped? What... is this ALL sex change patients do this in your opinion or what?

Hmmm.... maybe I should read the whole thread.

	30-11-2002 11:35									#39
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quote: If you want my honest opinion, Zylka, if you're being serious -- I think you and your attitude are far greater a threat to far more people than any transvestite ever will.

Please, do elaborate.

	30-11-2002 11:37									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler My, what a charming little coincidence. I had Thanksgiving dinner with my best buddy from high school. He's now a woman . . . and one of the finest individuals you'd ever want to meet.

Did you score then?

	30-11-2002 11:39									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Please, do elaborate.

Well... you sound like you're taking "destroy, destroy, DESTROY" to a new level. Or perhaps just a literal one.

	30-11-2002 11:40									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Please, do elaborate.

TVs have their own problems.

You want to export your problems to other people.

	30-11-2002 11:42									#43
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The cause of (in this case) filth and rape must be destroyed. I'm defending the rights of a greater society and all you're worried about is access to a twisted mistake (mistaken as a right) of a handfull of people in need of serious help.

	30-11-2002 11:46									#44
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The same train of logic you use is used in cases that outlaw homosexuality.

It's for the "greater good", doncha know.

The whole thing drives me insane because it's the people who want homosexuality (or in this case sex changes) outlawed because they think it'll hurt families, hurt people, and eventually kill society.

	30-11-2002 11:46									#45
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Damn, that's gotta be some good stuff you're using Zylka!

	30-11-2002 11:48									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The same train of logic you use is used in cases that outlaw homosexuality. It's for the "greater good", doncha know. The whole thing drives me insane because it's the people who want homosexuality (or in this case sex changes) outlawed because they think it'll hurt families, hurt people, and eventually kill society.

Don't tell me you've now equated my argument with "outlawing homosexuals". Perhaps the whole time I was trying to outlaw blacks, that sounds like it makes more sense.

Because that's a practise of good debate

	30-11-2002 11:51									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Don't tell me you've now equated my argument with "outlawing homosexuals". Perhaps the whole time I was trying to outlaw blacks, that sounds like it makes more sense. Because that's a practise of good debate

That's not what I said at all.

But it's the same logic used behind wanting homosexuality outlawed. You can't stand the thought that you may have had sex with someone who was born a man and became a woman later so it "ruins" the family, and some people can't stand the thought of having a homosexual "ruin" the family.

Same argument, different nouns, same ****.

	30-11-2002 11:52									#48
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Hi John, long time no see.

	30-11-2002 11:54									#49
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Zylka, you should see a show called, "Hedwig and the Angry Inch". It deals with a botched sex-change job.

	30-11-2002 11:54									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's not what I said at all. But it's the same logic used behind wanting homosexuality outlawed. You can't stand the thought that you may have had sex with someone who was born a man and became a woman later so it "ruins" the family, and some people can't stand the thought of having a homosexual "ruin" the family. Same argument, different nouns, same ****.

Don't keep too close to your rhetorical experience on homosexuality: I haven't mentioned the family unit once. This is about the individual versus the individual, and one of them is placing a terrible crime on the other

	30-11-2002 11:57									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka This is about the individual versus the individual, and one of them is placing a terrible crime on the other

Fair enough, then.

Why don't you just cut to the chase and make it mandatory for people who got a sex-change to notify future sexual partners that they have had a sex change? Much like they'd need to do if they had HIV or other STDs.

I still don't think that's right, but I wouldn't go protesting a law passed like that though...

	30-11-2002 12:00									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Don't keep too close to your rhetorical experience on homosexuality: I haven't mentioned the family unit once. This is about the individual versus the individual, and one of them is placing a terrible crime on the other

You didn't mention drugs either....

	30-11-2002 12:04									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Fair enough, then. Why don't you just cut to the chase and make it mandatory for people who got a sex-change to notify future sexual partners that they have had a sex change? Much like they'd need to do if they had HIV or other STDs. I still don't think that's right, but I wouldn't go protesting a law passed like that though...

I didn't know there was a law concerning STDs and AIDs, but that's good news. Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil - I'd rather outlaw the two sources themselves, but obviously enough, you can't outlaw disease.

A sex change is a practise which can be stopped through law. Allowing the core problem to go on and then policing the results is a little creepy and contradictory IMO. As well, there is too much of a grey area and not enough assurance of obedience and enforcement.

	30-11-2002 12:08									#54
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Sex change can be stopped by law, but that doesn't mean it should be.

Sex itself can be stopped by law. It sure would make things a lot easier if we could outlaw sex entirely, wouldn't it? Why not outlaw the source, like you said?

	30-11-2002 12:24									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Sex change can be stopped by law, but that doesn't mean it should be. Sex itself can be stopped by law. It sure would make things a lot easier if we could outlaw sex entirely, wouldn't it? Why not outlaw the source, like you said?

No, no, no. Obviously you can tell. You must steralise any man who seems a little effeminate and any woman who seems a little butch. You should form a little organisation for the people who want to be reassured that they haven't had a sex change and aren't sleeping with anyone who has. They can wear special clothing and have special rallies or something. Yeah! ****! That's the ticket!

	30-11-2002 14:38									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka I was exaggerating in putting it on terms with murder, but only to make a point. I would rather liken it to rape. A young girl loses her virginity to a "man" she has put trust in over the past few months, only to later find out that that man was previously a woman (and IMO - is neither now). This should be taken as seriously as rape, and the offender charged and sent to jail for several years.

Flawed argument. You're equating this situation with constructive rape when you should really equate it with unwitting lesbianism. Should lesbianisn be punished by imprisonment?

Another scenario- what if the deception in question wasn't a sex change but an exaggeration of the seducer's financial or social status. Should that be punishable by imprisonment too?

The only circumstance in which I can see a crime being possible is if the sex act in question is paid for. Possibly then you have grounds for "Obtaining goods/services by deception" but it's one hell of a stretch.

	30-11-2002 15:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Very few people are pro-sex changes. I'm not pro-sex change but I'm pro-mind-your-own-****ing-business.

Keep that up, and we'll have to make you an honorary southerner.

	30-11-2002 15:24									#58
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People don't decide overnight to have a sex change it is a long and difficult process, why should be people be condemed to a life of misery if there is a way to change it.(a way I might add that will have no impact on your life anyway)

	30-11-2002 15:48									#59
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Zylka> You know some people are born with the thought/emotions/some of the hormones of one gender and the body of the other?

	30-11-2002 15:49									#60
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Rather... telling... that Zylka posts this thread after Friday night.

Last edited by Stefu on 30-11-2002 at 15:55