30-11-2002 23:04									#1
	Job Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

is this your job mark or do you have a other job. Or is this your source of income.

	01-12-2002 07:17									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't think Apolyton breaks even, let alone pays the bills. But I'll let Markos answer this one.

	01-12-2002 07:58									#3
	Tired of ads?

I would think Apolyton produces a substantial amount of income, given the number of popups... but that's a tired subject.

	01-12-2002 08:45									#4
	Suffering from ads?

SidGames turned a profit, though it wasn't very big and it was while the economy was good.

	01-12-2002 09:32									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That was back in the good ole days of internet advertising... when people actually believed banners were worth what they were paying for them... The industry learned a lot of lessons from those days

	01-12-2002 09:42									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

well, last i heard, markos and dan are both still in university, so i doubt they are depending much on the income of this site to keep food on the table

	01-12-2002 11:25									#7
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by H Tower well, last i heard, markos and dan are both still in university, so i doubt they are depending much on the income of this site to keep food on the table

As H Tower says above, both Markos and I are still university; to expand on that a bit, we are full-time undergraduate students with part-time jobs in addition to our schoolwork, Apolyton and other committments (volunteer, family etc.). Any and all Apolyton's income goes straight towards operating expenses: hosting costs, databases/forum upkeep, domain fees etc. Even when the online advertising market was "hot", as it were, Apolyton was never in a position to 'support' either Markos or myself on any kind of level but then again we were not expecting it to then nor are we now.

That said, we do not want you to assume the worst: let me make it clear that Apolyton is not in financial trouble. We are in the black monetarily speaking. It is thanks in large part to our loyal visitor base that has made this possible even during the prolonged downturn in the online (and other aspects of the) economy.

------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	01-12-2002 11:39									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And thanks to the extraordinarily annoying popups, no doubt.

	01-12-2002 14:41									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Don't be snide Glonky, if 'Poly folded you would only have CG to whinge on.

	01-12-2002 14:43									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

And Beyond3D, and AnandTech, and Oasis, and some chat channels.

	01-12-2002 18:23									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Poly is a labour of love.

	01-12-2002 21:59									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Popups are annoying, but ultimately we get a nice free service. The efforts of those responsible shouldn't go unnoticed......even if they do give you pcr's for some harmless spam.

	02-12-2002 06:51									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ming ... when people actually believed banners were worth what they were paying for them... The industry learned a lot of lessons from those days

I wonder when commercial Television will learn its lesson.

	02-12-2002 09:40									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba I wonder when commercial Television will learn its lesson.

The industry has already learned that lesson. "Good" Television advertising is one of the most effective forms of advertising. Even BAD direct marketing commercials work... or you wouldn't be seeing them

	02-12-2002 11:40									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by DanQ As H Tower says above, both Markos and I are still university; to expand on that a bit, we are full-time undergraduate students with part-time jobs in addition to our schoolwork, Apolyton and other committments (volunteer, family etc.). Any and all Apolyton's income goes straight towards operating expenses: hosting costs, databases/forum upkeep, domain fees etc. Even when the online advertising market was "hot", as it were, Apolyton was never in a position to 'support' either Markos or myself on any kind of level but then again we were not expecting it to then nor are we now. That said, we do not want you to assume the worst: let me make it clear that Apolyton is not in financial trouble. We are in the black monetarily speaking. It is thanks in large part to our loyal visitor base that has made this possible even during the prolonged downturn in the online (and other aspects of the) economy. ------------ Dan; Apolyton CS

Well congratulations species - that is about the clearest explanation ever of the bottom line situation. Rumours of yachts and fast cars are untrue.

Now, in recognition of my unstinting loyalty, can I have some of my posts back

	02-12-2002 11:50									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

On behalf of the Apolyton administration:

	02-12-2002 12:37									#17
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Skanky:

	03-12-2002 06:22									#18
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Popups are annoying, but ultimately we get a nice free service. The efforts of those responsible shouldn't go unnoticed......even if they do give you pcr's for some harmless spam.

I agree, especially when you aren't even spamming.



ACK!

	03-12-2002 14:14									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I agree, especially when you aren't even spamming. ACK!

Lol, I don't think it's fair to say there was no spam, but it would be fair to look questioningly at other threads where much worse spam is ignored. I guess Mark was just having a bad day, and decided to spread it out a bit.

	03-12-2002 14:51									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It was overly harsh, I agree.
But the last time I publically disagreed with Markos over a punishment of someone else, I got a 10-day ban.
So I'm not saying a thing.

	03-12-2002 18:03									#21
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random punishment is better than no punishment. in fact some times it's better than every-case punishment

seriously, we act on the stuff that we see. if we dont see it, we cant act on it...

	03-12-2002 18:21									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MarkG random punishment is better than no punishment. in fact some times it's better than every-case punishment

Well yes and no. It is the eternal equity/efficiency trade-off. You are trying to minimise overall spam by punishing a sample of individuals, which may well be the most efficient way of tackling the issue. But not treating like as like is clearly inequitable. Those that are punished are paying for both their own and others' spam.

	03-12-2002 19:16									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Those that are punished are paying for both their own and others' spam.

And your point?

	03-12-2002 19:26									#24
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Inequity.

And another thing; if the PTB's are going to persist (as they probably should) in sporadic attempts to curb spam, which fall randomly on various posters, I feel you need to look again at the severity of post counts reductions in these cases. 10% given for these little spam incentive reducers, (again, especially given that it has been admitted that these fall pretty randomly) when 10% is also often given for much worse behaviour committed by specific individuals seems inconsistent to me.

	03-12-2002 19:35									#25
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Consider it just like speeding... many people do it, but only some people get caught. And it's expensive when you do get caught

	03-12-2002 19:41									#26
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Your analogy is not without merit. In both circumstances monitoring is costly, and it is the fine for those who do get caught that acts an incentive for those who don't. I have already said I agree with that part, as inequitable as it may be it is efficient.....as an economist I know lots about mechanisms for providing incentives when monitoring costs are high.

But to continue your analogy would you fine someone speeding at 80 MPH on the motorway the same as someone doing 100MPH on an 'A' road. Of course you wouldn't, and that is why more thought needs to be given to relative fines in our case as well.

	03-12-2002 19:47									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've given people 50% PCR's before... would you like me to change yours to that

	03-12-2002 19:52									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you think I am wrong, say so, and tell us why.

	03-12-2002 20:03									#29
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Moderators all act in their own way... MarkG is king of the standard 10%... MtG is king of the quick hook... Rah usually just posts in a thread, and the problem stops... I take many things in consideration when giving punishments, leaning more toward variable length restrictions then PCR's.

Different strokes for different folks... and that's just the way it is.

	03-12-2002 20:09									#30
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Ok, thanks for the discussion Ming, though your 50% post did you no credit. I am just trying to raise some points I think are relevant, not campaigning for a pcr remover.

That would abrogate the incentive effect, leaving the inequity and damaging the efficiency. Not good policy.