01-12-2002 04:46									#1
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I played a game yesterday (MOO2) and while Id like to boast about how I won in about 45 minutes, the opposite was true.

It was just about the best starting location Id ever had. I had settled 6 ultra rich planets (huge map). made contact very recently with all 3 races. Elect galactic president soon comes up, and blahm, they all vote for the Psylon, who wins out.

After having such good planets at the start, I was very upset

	01-12-2002 05:57									#2
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That is unusal, I would not expect a vote so soon on a huge map. It is a real danger in Moo1 on a small map.

	01-12-2002 06:08									#3
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I once lost on two turns after the 1st council meeting on a small map.

When the first vote came up, the Bulrathis narrowly missed getting 2/3rds. Two turns later, another vote came up and they secured the missing votes.

I wasn't even in the running at the time and simply conceded the humiliating defeat.

	01-12-2002 10:08									#4
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I have heard of early vote, just have not seen it that Irecall. Nothing humiliating about it as it is just a freaky deal.

	03-12-2002 09:01									#5
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Had a game of Moo1 once where my 3 parsec planet next to my homeworld just happened to be Orion (I don't think this is supposed to happen normally so maybe something went wrong somewhere).
Lost my colony ship on turn 3 and would've had to rebuild it and research both tundra environment and range 5 fuel cells to colonize the next closest planet (this on a huge map). Having found this out by turn 5 I just gave up and restarted.

	03-12-2002 13:13									#6
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I had Orion next to me like that, but I had another star within the 3 parsec range as well. I lost my scout, not my colony.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 05-12-2002 at 03:17

	04-12-2002 14:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Had a game of Moo1 once where my 3 parsec planet next to my homeworld just happened to be Orion (I don't think this is supposed to happen normally so maybe something went wrong somewhere).

Happened to me as well. So it seems it can happen normally. Anyway, my colony ship got eaten and I called it quits.

	05-12-2002 03:19									#8
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UR, even if you do not lose you CS, you will be handicapped.

	05-12-2002 20:45									#9
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I would be, though I might be able to recover if had just lost my scout. There were some systems four and five parsecs away that I could reach with my next (hopefully) tech in propulsion.

	05-12-2002 22:02									#10
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If started to play MoO1 again, after years of abstinence.

One of my first games I was close/next to Orion, but it actually helped me, as the I was in a corner and the Klackons next to me, so that I only had one system to defend. And Yes, I still won the game, even as the first votings didn't include me at all.

But one advantage of MoO1 against 2 is that the Tech-progress is a bit longer, at least my feeling.

The only thing which starts to disturb me, that the tech's are random. Like in my last game nobody had radioactive planets. There were couple of Ultra-Rich around and no-one was able to use them

For MoO2: I never had such an early vote. IIRC it should only start after 50% of all systems(? or planets) had been colonised. This point seems to be 'earlier' in MoO2 as in 1. But the main reason might be that the maps in 1 are HUGE, whereas in 2 are just huge.

	05-12-2002 23:17									#11
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Moo1 will trigger a vote once 2/3 of planets have been colonized.
Moo2, I never found what the trigger is, but it can be be very early. I have not run into it, but other report the vote in less than 10 turns.
I have seen many games where all of the planets could not be colonized, due to lack of technology in Moo1.

	05-12-2002 23:29									#12
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One thing I 'recognised' in MoO2, votes only started after you 'met' everyone. If you haven't met everyone, there won't be votes. I had one game, locked in a corner, unable to get away, 2 systems in reach, 1 no planets, second one Asteroids, from there to another one, with again no planets...... Yes, great, And only after the AI traded between themselves unlimited or range 9, whatever, they contacted me and two turns later they voted. I just had one vote, Yes, great, down the *&^%&*..........

Thanks vmxa1, I had in mind 50%, but the at this stage, it is moving so quickly, that it would be only a differnence of 2/3 turns (more or less).

	06-12-2002 04:32									#13
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If I Remember correctly, in MOO 2 voting occurs only you've made contact with everyone.

	16-12-2002 10:36									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch The only thing which starts to disturb me, that the tech's are random. Like in my last game nobody had radioactive planets. There were couple of Ultra-Rich around and no-one was able to use them

That's why I think the game should let everybody get all the "unique techs" and the last in "serial techs."

"Unique techs" are ones where there is no substitute. Atmospheric Terraforming for example.

"Serial techs" are ones where the later ones are progressively better than the early ones. For example, Gauss Autocannon is the last in the "slugthrower" series IIRC.

	16-12-2002 12:15									#15
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Hum, I like the fact that you are not assured that you will get a given tech or it will even be in the game.
BTW UR aren't you on the list for nominees? Way to go.

	16-12-2002 21:27									#16
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I am not so much complaining about that you can't get every tech, but at least you should be able to reach the highest one.

I already had, that I missed one of the industrial-techs, but I had the next higher one. But you should always be able to reach the highest one, maybe not for the normal price. That's were I like the creative attribute in MoO2, this way you can get everything. I am jst sometimes a tech-freak..........

	16-12-2002 22:53									#17
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Naw, it makes for new strategies. No Star Gates in the game this time? Got to use a different tactics. No radiated terraforming, better eliminate those Sillies. I play with max races, so you have a better chance to get a given tech in the game. The tech I hate not see in teh game if atmospheric terraforming. After that, if no soil or advanced soil.
One of the things that I would like for Moo2 is that some tech was not available in a given game.

	17-12-2002 00:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Moo2, I never found what the trigger is, but it can be be very early. I have not run into it, but other report the vote in less than 10 turns.

This was in the smallest setting possible, with advanced tech start. Not so much of a surprise, really.

	17-12-2002 00:39									#19
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I had a Moo1 game once, where the Meklars controlled nearly half the Galaxy.

I was their loyal (but tiny) Psilon ally, and managed to sneak enough votes away from them to get elected Emperor.

	17-12-2002 00:42									#20
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quote: Originally posted by SiriusX If I Remember correctly, in MOO 2 voting occurs only you've made contact with everyone.

As soon as any player triggers that condition, yes. I once made it a sport to see how few I could know before first election came up. Never did better (or worse...) than two, if I recall correctly.

	18-12-2002 10:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Hum, I like the fact that you are not assured that you will get a given tech or it will even be in the game.

I agree you can argue it both ways. I just think that it makes more sense for all the races to be able to get all the critical techs - if they survive long enough.

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 BTW UR aren't you on the list for nominees? Way to go.

Nominees? Oh, DarkCloud's silly list things?

	18-12-2002 13:18									#22
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Yes both sides have a value.

	02-01-2003 21:29									#23
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My shortest Game of Moo I ever won lasted like 3-4 minutes.

It was Moo 1, small Map, Impossible, Humans

In turn 23 there was the first election. I did not have contact with anyone. However I won the election with an overwhelming 10:2 result!

Doing this post lasted longer than that game...

Btw. I never won Impossible besides this one game!

	02-01-2003 22:53									#24
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How many races in the game? I play small maps on hard and impossible with 5 other races and have never seen a vote before 2/3 of the maps was colonized. Of the more than 2000 games of Moo1 I have played at least half were on small maps. I have played 2 so far this week.
Impossible maps are very hard with races other than Klac/Psilons and Meks, maybe Sakkra. I have not been able to win with Mrrs at that level.
Easiest impossible game is Klacs with 5 races on small universe. You need to have a location that lets you get 4 planets going before everyone starts getting nasty. Less than 4 means you may be voted out before you can do anything. Psilons are harder as they will have trouble getting and holding 4 planets.

	03-01-2003 00:56									#25
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6 races in the game, each of em had 2 votes.

Of course there's no election before 2/3rd of the galaxy are colonized but with the 20 or so planets in there that's not a problem with that at turn 23: 4*2+2*3=14 planets colonized.

However, somehow the Humans-Diplomacy-Bonus made em prefer voting for me instead of abstaining or voting for the other guy.

	03-01-2003 02:25									#26
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Ail, I got to say that sounds a bit strange to me. A small uni will have about 22-24 planets. Some may not be colonizable ever, so that coud drop down to maybe as low as 20. That is fine.
By turn 23 I would expect some where around 11 planets to colonized. So you would need 14 as a std number in most games. That could happen, but I can not say I recall seeing it. I will concede that it could happen, but I would say it is very rare. Many times you will need some terraform improvements to colonize some. If silis are in the game, it is usually worse as I tend to see more hostile planets, which slows down other races. Maybe on a lower setting than impossible, it would be easier, but I would think not as the AI loses it boost.
Anyway that is very early, but I never vote for myself unless I want to go to total war or the game is down to the final strokes. I sometimes for for myself or for the other guy to force total war, so no more votes take place and I do not have to be bothered with them.

	03-01-2003 09:27									#27
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quote: Originally posted by SiriusX If I Remember correctly, in MOO 2 voting occurs only you've made contact with everyone.

That's not the only thing to it though. I often start in "advanced" mode - where everybody starts out with a half-dozen planets and some tech. If you're in the middle of the galaxy you're in contact with nearly everybody immediately and meet the remainder within a few turns.
Voting, however, doesn't commence for some time thereafter...

	03-01-2003 12:13									#28
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Yeah, I there was a strategy from Moomin for fastest win by turn 7 which included winning by vote. I tried to do it but for unknow reason the first vote always occured for me on turn 26 (I had contact with everyone from turn 2). So there can be another undocumented factor for the first vote, may be added by the patch.
A 25 turns delay sounds reasonable ....

	03-01-2003 17:52									#29
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Anyway that is very early, but I never vote for myself unless I want to go to total war or the game is down to the final strokes. I sometimes for for myself or for the other guy to force total war, so no more votes take place and I do not have to be bothered with them.

Hrmpf... I normally like winning by beeing elected. I always voted for myself if that was possible!
Only in this one game, it was a bit strange since everybody elected me.

You think it's unlikely that the AIs on impossible get 14 planets by turn 23? I'll do a test series with the Alt-Galaxy-cheat to find out about the likelyness of this...

	03-01-2003 22:37									#30
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Today won a MoO2 small impossible at Turn 150 :=)
Planetary Council.. well I had 5 Votes and won.
Funny Game