02-12-2002 01:27									#1
	Game mechanics thread Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thinking out loud, wouldn't it be great if we had a thread about game mechanics? It'll be sort of like the C3DG directory, only with links to posts and FAQs in Apolyton and CivFanatics that concern game mechanics, such as how corruption is calculated, how culture flipping is calculated, links to online combat chances calculators and corruption calculators, tables showing how long it takes a native worker and a slave to perform each task, tables showing the shields/food/gold output of each terrain type etc'.
I'd like to volunteer to be the admin of such a thread if the people approve.

	02-12-2002 01:46									#2
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I wanted to that, but it just proved to be too much work

Good luck

	02-12-2002 01:49									#3
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Go ahead, but be warned, there is already such a thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=59216

	02-12-2002 02:03									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes indeed... if such threads are created, I think they should be in a publicly available forum, and not for our own, personal use. I suspect that once this game, and other PBEM games are rolling, a lot of our members want to publicly write and discuss about new MP strats. It might be counterproductive to our game, but you can't keep all the strat writers in our team from doing it... So, IMHO, no special thread in here, or it should relate to specific tactics we are using. All other, more general, knowledge should go into the public fora.

DeepO

	02-12-2002 02:15									#5
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Sir Ralph: that thread is great! Seems like any attempts to do what I meant to do would simply be an unnecessary effort.

DeepO: I agree. Universal strategies and other thoughts should be made public, but ideas relating specifically to our game must be kept a secret, at least until we use them. I'm sure the enemy has spies that monitor the Civ3 Strategy forum, and if they spot a gathering member post a new strategy thread they might get good ideas on what's going on inside the team...
Then again, we could abuse this in our favor. We could post in plain sight about a strategy which we want our enemies to think that we're going to use and then surprise them. This idea should be discussed (if it wasn't discussed already; again, please excuse the newb), but this thread is not the place.

	02-12-2002 02:23									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Of course, no revealing of specific strats we're about to use... that would be a sure way of losing the game. Plus, the other way is also not possible: we can't start a thread in which we explain a given situation, and ask what we should do in such a position, and if there would be any alternatives. So, we can't post a strat that we think another team is playing on us either.

As to abusing strat threads: every deception is allowed, as long as it stays honorable. However, setting up a decent decoy strat thread will require time, and a good strat to write about... not at this moment. But maybe later in the game, we could think on it.

DeepO

	02-12-2002 02:43									#7
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Very devious.

	04-12-2002 01:28									#8
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I have a game mechanic question.

Let's say you just discovered a tech, and are choosing new research. Let's also say you have a warrior or two, even, ready to pop huts. If you get tech from a hut, you always get the cheapest tech you don't have and are not researching, right?

Well, would it make sense then to go 100% Tax, select the cheapest tech (say, pottery), and pop the huts? That way, you would get the next cheapest tech you don't have if you get tech from one of the huts (bronze working?). Then you could crank up research again, and either proceed with pottery or switch to something else.

EDIT: This is most relevant if you don't want pottery, and will change to something else. Otherwise, no need to go 100% tax - just research it.

Or am I nuts? Discuss.

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 01:37									#9
	Put an end to popups!

That's devilishly clever Arrian, I hope it will actually work.

Of course, this strategy would make Expansionist Civs more attractive because they could pop more huts faster and never get negative results. The boost to Gold would be useful too.

Question: would you re-assign your slider and research just immediately before you pop the hut? or leave it at 100% Tax and Pottery for the as long as possible?

	04-12-2002 01:44									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, as an expansionist civ, on a map that favors such civs, I would probably copy Aeson and get the Wheel, choose Horseback Riding, and shut research off for a very long time. As a non-expansionist civ, I typically research what I want to research without giving any thought to tech from huts.

Bear in mind that my example is a very specific circumstance: only if you have just completed research on a tech and have 1 or more huts you can pop next turn. A little bit of planning *may* be able to set this situation up, but I don't expect it to happen. I'd just like to know the answer in case it does.

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 01:45									#11
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Oh, to actually answer your question I would immediately turn research back on. This was just for the 1 turn it takes to pop the hut(s).

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 01:46									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I've never checked whether it's always the cheapest. Depending on the circumstances, after finishing a research project, it may make sense to switch to an unwanted or cheaper tech and zero research briefly before popping huts (especially once we have a building or two and thus bleed gold at 100% research), but I wouldn't be inclined to do it for very long, and I wouldn't mess up exploration patterns much to wait to pop huts unless the possibility of a free settler is also at stake. Note also that you can switch to something you don't want at the beginning of the turn after you discover a tech, pop a hut or two, and then switch research to the tech you want before the end of the turn. (My confirmation is that with minimum research, the time stays 40 turns regardless of whether you stick to your initial choice or change it during the turn.)

	04-12-2002 01:54									#13
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I agree we shouldn't go too far out of our way to set it up, but it may be something to bear in mind as we uncover the map, and near discovery of The Wheel.

Most likely we'll end up popping some angry barbs, 25 gold, and a map of stuff we're about to explore anyway

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 08:57									#14
	Remove this text

Risky strategy, and getting maps whould probably result in the destruction of my monitor.

	04-12-2002 09:02									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually, if we are about to start researching a given tech, and spend only the one turn at 100% tax, it isn't really risky at all. But I doubt it will come into play, so don't worry.

-Arrian

	04-12-2002 10:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Actually, if we are about to start researching a given tech, and spend only the one turn at 100% tax, it isn't really risky at all. But I doubt it will come into play, so don't worry.

In a mode where you (1) have buildings and (2) actively research rather than waiting 40 turns, spending a couple turns at zero research doesn't necessarily hurt. The gold you build up while at zero can be used to deficit spend on research to get back where you would have been if you hadn't dropped to zero. (Assuming, of course, you don't already have the cash for deficit spending.)

	04-12-2002 20:09									#17
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That's pretty much what I'm saying, yeah.

-Arrian

	06-12-2002 07:02									#18
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not really an MP thing, but

In my current game I traded 'republic' to the Ottomans.
(On MY turn !!!)
After that (still the same turn), they went into anarchy,
Is that supposed to happen??? can the AI do that when it is my turn??
(took me right back to 1.17?, where the AI traded when it was not supposed to.
Or I just never noticed this before off-course

	06-12-2002 07:11									#19
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alva, are you sure? it happened in the first patch, but after a storm of protest, they got it out of 1.07f (blend Civ). Now, if an AI get a tech, they can only do something with it the moment they 'get into control' I thought: They can't trade it instantly, and neither can they use it.

At least, I haven't seen it before.

DeepO

	06-12-2002 17:11									#20
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nope, I'm sure, when it was he's turn, he was in republic.
(it was the arabs btw, not the Ottomans)
Stupid me didn't make a save off-course

	06-12-2002 19:42									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well, as a religious civ, I have often discovered a tech (let's say from the Great Library, which is kinda like getting it via a trade), been offered a revolution, accepted, and been in the new government that turn.

-Arrian (who loves religious civs)

	06-12-2002 19:52									#22
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Arrian, there is one big difference with getting it via trade, and getting it from the GL. The spoils of the GL are calculated at the same time as the rest of research: at the very start of a turn, before going through the cities. If you receive the tech in front, and immediately go into anarchy, none of your cities will produce anything that turn. However, before you can move a unit, the anarchy will end.

This is exactly the same as when you would go into anarchy during your own turn (when you get it by trade): you lose 1 turn of production in your cities. Never do you get out of anarchy in the same turn(losing nothing), it can only look that way because you can't move units in between. But the effect to cities will stay the same in all cases.

DeepO

	10-12-2002 12:43									#23
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something I found at that other site
I think some of you might like it.

RE: popping huts

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's not really that it's difficult; it's just that it was implemented by an intern . Here are the conditions: Gold: *The tile must not have any type of resource or luxury on it. Maps: --always available Nothing: --always available Settler: *Player must not have a settler (active or in production) or any unit with the Settle AI strategy. *Number of player's cities must be <= (TotalCities / NumActivePlayers). Mercenaries (skilled warrior): *There must be a unit available to the Barbarians as well as the player and that unit must be able to be built (or have been built) by some player in the game. Tech: *Player must still be in Ancient Times. Barbarians: *Player must not have Expansionist trait. *There must not be a city within a 1-tile radius. *The player must have at least 1 city. *The player must have at least 1 military unit. *The unit popping the hut must not have the "All Terrain As Roads" ability. __________________ Mike Breitkreutz Programmer FIRAXIS Games Last edited by Mike B. FIRAXIS on Aug 01, 2002 at 09:37 PM

	10-12-2002 14:15									#24
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Thanks Alva! That's very interesting.