02-12-2002 08:57									#31
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Green is roads for Phase 1 with the first settler building a city ON ITS ONLY TURN OF EXISTENCE.

It moves two squares and builds Camp Wino.
(southern one is Camp Hunchback, and the northern one is Camp Herring)

Phase 1 also connects the wine.

Phase 2 is the pink roads and sees the building of Camp Hunchback, then Camp Herring.

By then we will have many warriors that will have scouted our surrounding area and we can start placing our major cities.

	02-12-2002 12:08									#32
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Hmmm... sounds like you have done this before....



I am a little concerned about how long it will take to build the road to the north. I think we should build it next (after the mine and road where the worker is now).

Have the worker build mine, then road. Then send him to tile 1 to road before sending him to tile 17 (the rivered game forest). If we send him to the forest first, the road there will not be built be the time we have completed our first Glorious Warrior.

I guess in short (ok, not really short), I want to make sure the road to the next city site is built before the settler is built in order to expidite his travels.

One other question: What do we do if we get a settler from the goodie hut?
Do we continue to build our Forts or do we go for our second permenate settlement?

Damn... somebody slap me! My builder is showing again!

	02-12-2002 16:59									#33
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Congrats to our Glorious (and lucky) Emperor GhengisFarb!

	02-12-2002 17:43									#34
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Why should we waste time building a road on the city site? It only gives us one less turn for the settler to move, and building a road on a hill takes a while.

	02-12-2002 20:31									#35
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Doh!

The only way to have our first settler around for one turn would be to road both those hills to the city site. That is what you were intending, wasn't it?

	02-12-2002 20:38									#36
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i agree with panzer on building the road, it'll only slow our city down one turn while it will free our worker up for many turns...also so there are so many hills around us, and since we are already researching bronze working, we might as well pick up ironworking second instead of the wheel, simply because iron might be close by, and otherwise going for bronze working first is pointless, since we don't really need spearmen as long as we stay agressive

	02-12-2002 21:53									#37
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal One other question: What do we do if we get a settler from the goodie hut? Do we continue to build our Forts or do we go for our second permenate settlement?

I would say build a permenant settlement.

Yes, roading the hill will only save one turn, but remember we are playing against human opponents who have the same settings as us (not AI with faster build times).

Each one turn saved will add on to the one turns saved later. I really want to meet the other civs with quite a few more cities than them. I know its being kinda cheesy but Iwould like to have as many edges over the competition as possible.

However if the majority want to wait the extra turn I will abide by their decision. Maybe the first camp should be the one north as we could road a grassland to get the settler there.

	02-12-2002 22:40									#38
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quote: Yes, roading the hill will only save one turn, but remember we are playing against human opponents who have the same settings as us (not AI with faster build times). Each one turn saved will add on to the one turns saved later. I really want to meet the other civs with quite a few more cities than them. I know its being kinda cheesy but Iwould like to have as many edges over the competition as possible.

while i agree with you on this, i don't think we should mindlessly build cities also as far as the extra road goes, would we even have time to build it before we produce our settler? plus although we may lose one turn of a cities production, we gain numerous turns for our worker

here is a few questions i have i don't have access to a copy of civ3 at the moment:

right now our build order is a warrior and a settler right? could someone figure out when exactly we will hit 3 pop and 4 pop and how many shields we will produce at those intervals

where are we going to place citizens 2-4?

where should we send our worker to explore?

also which civs are we facing...maybe we need like an opponent analysis thread possibly

	02-12-2002 22:47									#39
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 here is a few questions i have i don't have access to a copy of civ3 at the moment: right now our build order is a warrior and a settler right? could someone figure out when exactly we will hit 3 pop and 4 pop and how many shields we will produce at those intervals

Queu is to build warriors until the city can complete a settler at size 3. Should get 2-3 warriors before then.

quote: Originally posted by korn469 where are we going to place citizens 2-4?

1 uses the grassland the worker is improving. 2 would probably use the wine or shielded grassland next to the river. 3 would use the game next to the river. There is no 4 the city isn't going to get that big.

quote: Originally posted by korn469 where should we send our worker to explore?

Workers don't exlore, they work. Hence the name worker.

	03-12-2002 01:37									#40
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quote: Workers don't exlore, they work. Hence the name worker

sorry that was a typo, i was in a hurry, i meant warrior, not worker

	03-12-2002 01:55									#41
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right now i'm having computer problems right now, so could you please give me the stats on the proposed three squares we are going to work, the base square, and how much food and shields we currently have in our boxes?

	05-12-2002 01:53									#42
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Are we going to set a city aside to work on a Wonder only? Typically, you have to in order to beat the AI to a Wonder but we're playing against other humans only. So might it be possible for us to get two early Wonders, and if so which ones?

I would go for:
Pyramids- Saves us the construction and maintenance on Granaries and NEVER expires.

Great Library, Saves us having to research tech for a while.

Lighthouse, gives us +1 sea movement and the ability to safely travel sea tiles but am unsure how important this will be right now.

Colossus, extra trade, do we need this at all?

	05-12-2002 02:11									#43
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Go for great library first. We could use more money, not having to wory about techs so much. Personally, I don't build granaries, so I don't know of their usefullness. Lighthouse, no. We don't need it. Colossus: I personally use it alot, but it is probably craved by some of the other teams.

	05-12-2002 02:15									#44
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i think we shouldn't really invest in wonders that much and instead build our armies up as much as possible, and only build a wonder if we think that we can build it without sacrificing our military

	05-12-2002 07:57									#45
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I agree with korn, but I make an exception in the case of Pyramids. It's a must, never expires and allows an expressive growth. Then we can have settler factories, we will need this.
Later, Sun Tzu and Leonardo.
Note: I like the Great library, but we have to meet the other civs in a relatively small time, before we get education, or the GL will be useless. Hmmm... What size of world are we playing on?

	05-12-2002 10:39									#46
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I had planned on the Pyramids and the Great Library as I feel we can build both and still lead in military and domestic expansion.


Besides it would be really cool if the Warmongers built the first Wonder just to spite all those Builder wimps.

Why the Pyramids?
Free granieries in EVERY city and it NEVER expires.
Anything that gives you a free something is a good thing to have. The graneries speed up the time our cities grow, the bigger our cities the more tiles they work, the more tiles they work the more shields they produce, the more shields they produce, the MORE UNITS THEY BUILD.

And it means the other civs don't have it.

Why the Great Library
We get a tech anytime two other civs have it. This means we can shift our slider to 100% tax and stockpile the money. I want to build a lot of money and connect to horses as soon as possible so that we can shift our unit prodution to almost 100% chariots/horsemen so that when we get Chivalry we can take all that stockpiled money and instantly upgrade all those units to our UU the Rider. Hopefully, we will have completed Sun Tsu by then and the bloodbath will begin. (where's the evil guy's Santa hat?)

Seriously, we should be able to complete TWO Wonders with ease (on Regent level against the AI I usually get 4-5 of the Ancient Wonders) and those are the most useful to us in my opinion.

	05-12-2002 17:30									#47
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Wow... maybe we should change our name to "Legowar".

I never expected this turn in events.

If we can set up worker/settler factory forts (say two or three) start to go for Pyrimids. Can't beat the usefulness of all those graneries. If someone beats us to it..... , then switch to GL.

	05-12-2002 17:37									#48
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal ... If someone beats us to it..... , then switch to GL.

If someone beat us... Take the wonder from the bastards!

	05-12-2002 20:20									#49
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Wow... maybe we should change our name to "Legowar". I never expected this turn in events. If we can set up worker/settler factory forts (say two or three) start to go for Pyrimids. Can't beat the usefulness of all those graneries. If someone beats us to it..... , then switch to GL.

I was thinking if we completed the first two Wonders of the game (and I think that is a real possibility) we can say in the Public Forum that our name is now Glory of Wonders and say we've adopted a builder strategy based on our starting position. Not informing them of the massive military we've been building.......

General plan for capitol:
Builds 2-3 warriors then settler (1 warrior stays in city)
Builds temple (if available), possibly a warrior, then settler
Builds the Pyramids.

By the time it switches to Pyramids it will have generated 2 settlers and those two camps will be taking over its settler/unit production.

Second permanent city usually starts to work on Palace to stockpile shields for the Great Library. By bulding a Palace it won't show up on the Wonder screen and the other teams won't know we forged so far ahead towards our second Wonder when they trade us Literacy.

I can almost guarantee the other teams aren' t even thinking about Wonders right now.

Between the capitol's city radius and the area of the 3 camp sites there are 12 tiles that will generate 2 food and 2 shields each. I believe 8 of them will also generate 2 commerce each. That is a VERY productive starting area.

	05-12-2002 21:03									#50
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Great plan, Ghengis. What does this mean in turns, 16~20, before we start the Pyramids? If so, and if we find horses near us, we can produce one chariot or two, and then delegate this to the forts, without prejudice the production of settlers and workers.

quote: Originally edited by realpolitic I wouldn't invest in ancient wonders - alot of this game is going to be determined by swords, horses, and riders.

	05-12-2002 23:52									#51
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My choice is the wheel -- we can purchase bronze, but horseback riding will take longer until it's available.

I just caculated that a granary takes about 35 turns to return its 60 shields by annexing lands that are 2 food, 1 shield, converting any pop above town size to workers - I think we can do better by building military.

Pyramids are terrible - it costs as much a 7 granries, it gets nothing until you've spent 400 shields, by the time you've built it, you have decent sized core cities.

The Oracle doesn't last long, and instead of temples, we can maximize our production using the luxury slider: swordsmen, horsemen, and riders should give us plenty of territory.

The Great Library - maybe, it costs 13 swordsman or horsemen, plus the risk of someone beating us to it. Tech may be hard to get, but once we can build swordsmen & horsemen, the value of conquests may yield enough cities to ofset the tech loss. If you figure our chance of getting it is 1/3 then it's real cost is about 900 shields- that is in one case we get it for 400 shields, but 2 other cases we've spent about 250 shields and gotten nothing, so in these 3 instances we've spent 900 shields and only gotten it in the first case.


BUT THERE IS ONE THING -- Assuming that the computer will tell the other civs we're in contact with that we've "contacted" that we're starting a wonder, we misdirect the other civs by starting a wonder early, then after a turn change our production, and hope that we've paniced them into starting a wonder ealy, making them more vulnerable.

Last edited by realpolitic on 06-12-2002 at 01:44

	06-12-2002 01:26									#52
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realpolitic

it was my understanding that there isn't any AI civs in this game, and since there are 7 human civs there could be at most only a single AI, so if we do buy any techs it will be from other human civs

i am very cautious of building any wonders for the time being, in my opinion we need to concentrate on building cities and scouts, then build granaries in settler/worker factories and our capital plus we need some barracks in cities churning out military units. we are the only militaristic civ in the game, so we will have the easiest time building barracks, which means we should have the most veteran units, and also we are twice as likely to get promotions, so we should have the most elites as well

also i think that other civs are going to beat us to wonders, simply because our research is focused on getting us powerful offense weapons, as it should be for a team focused on victory through force of arms...as aro pointed out, we won't discover the techs we need to build any of the wonders many of us are coveting for quite some time, and i think instead of using a city to save shields for a wonder, that we should use it to build items that will help us in the present instead of the future

the colossus, great libary, and pyramids are the only ancient wonders of any real value in this game since the happiness wonders aren't really needed that much on monarch...a single warrior with our wines will allow our cities to grow to size 4 without any happiness problems, so i don't think we should pursue wonders at this time

	06-12-2002 01:49									#53
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NO WONDERS

	06-12-2002 02:34									#54
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Wait a minute... even warmongers like us could use some wonders. Sun Tzu is good, Leonardo's Workshop is better. Pyramids will be a great wonder, if we want to found more than seven cities... Our queue seems to be very reasonable, balanced and correct. We have defense, attack (at the moment, warriors) and prodution (workers), some improvement...
Guys, we'll need some civilization to play Civ3... and Generals need big nations to produce and manage big armies. I'm not thinking like a (aargh) builder , but how can we produce massively armies without growth?
Realpolitic: Did you like my visit? Seems not...

	06-12-2002 02:51									#55
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Ok, FEW WONDERS

	06-12-2002 03:34									#56
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Queu is to build warriors until the city can complete a settler at size 3.

We should wait with building settlers so they maximize production. That means wait until a city produces at 6 or 8 shields. When it's 3,4 or 7 shields we should normally produce archers, and when it's 2 or 5 produce warriors. Every city we found uses shields that could otherwise be used to build arms, and will take 20 shields to build a barracks before it becomes productive, and requires protection. If we use a horseman instead of a settler to get a city, we don't use up the 2 pop.

	06-12-2002 04:11									#57
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quote: We should wait with building settlers so they maximize production. That means wait until a city produces at 6 or 8 shields. When it's 3,4 or 7 shields we should normally produce archers, and when it's 2 or 5 produce warriors. Every city we found uses shields that could otherwise be used to build arms, and will take 20 shields to build a barracks before it becomes productive, and requires protection

realpolitic could you please explain this again, like do you mean when a cities produces 2 or 5 shields per turn or do you mean like 2 or 5 rows

it takes 30 shields to build a settler, the thing is, settler production is limited in civ3 by pop not shields early on, since we know how long it takes to build each tile improvement, we can plan our turns so that we can produce a settler exactly as we grow to size 3, all we have to do is figure that out before hand, i just need to know what the base square produces since it's on a mountain

while i agree that mindlessly using ICS tactics isn't a good strategy, having a good number of cities is something we must do

what i'm wondering is this, what exactly are you suggesting for our capital's build queue? do you disagree with our current 1-2 warriors then a settler?

	06-12-2002 09:31									#58
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I HATE Archers. They are only useful for the time it takes them to find a barbarian encampment and then their pointless. Warriors are cheap otherwise I wouldn't build them either, but horsemen upgrade to cavalry.

We can't just build units or we'll be fighting Riflemen with Horsemen and that will take a lot of Horsemen.

	06-12-2002 09:42									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb We can't just build units or we'll be fighting Riflemen with Horsemen and that will take a lot of Horsemen.

	06-12-2002 12:17									#60
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Well, well... I need two more posts to be a king. In fact, I’ll need only one, considering this post. Is this spam?
Seriously: the GhengisFarb’s plan is a very good one, without harm our status of warmongers.