02-12-2002 05:38									#1
	My thoughts on the new artwork layout Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

First, thanks Vel for posting the artwork and screen layout. Eye candy is always nice!

Now for the comments: It is very interesting and cool but... (you know there was a "but" coming, sorry)

...I think it needs some tweaking.

Here are my humble suggestions:

The buttons for "tech", "armies", "diplo", "budget" etc... could be little shields. That would be cool! The "end turn" could be a shield, maybe even with the faction's emblem on it?

I also would like to suggest that there be a info button for power (your current standing in the game), and number of armies in addition to the two "gold" and "honor" ones. I would put all those info buttons on the top, on either side of the CB emblem (I love it!).

These info buttons need to give the player a fast and quick summary of how he/she is doing.

They might look like like this:

power: #2
gold (C): 2000 (growing)
gold (M): 3045 (shrinking)
honor: 100 (growing)
armies: 5 (strong)

I think it is important to have the "growing" or "shrinking" comment in the info button to tell the player if the value is going up or down since last turn. The "strong" comment would indicate your relative military strength compared to other players.

These info buttons could be little scrolls? (ok, maybe that is going a bit far, but it is just a thought)

Last but not least, I was thinking that the CB emblem on the top could serve as the main menu/exit button. The player would click on it to exit the game or access the load/save/options/help screens. That would, you would not need the the little help and game buttons in the top corners. It might make things a bit cleaner.

Just some friendly comments.
Good luck with the game!

	02-12-2002 11:24									#2
	Remove this text

My comment on the new artwork layout...

I think the green vine shouldn't stand out so much. Maybe by making the green a little bit darker it will seem to fit in better and/or possibly making the leaves a bit smaller. The balls or the bubbles (what exactly are they anyways?) coming out of the dragons (or whatever they are?) mouths shouldn't be there; I don't think they fit in at all.

Other than that I think the layout looks pretty good, but it does still need a few changes.

	02-12-2002 19:36									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey guys! Good comments so far! Keep 'em coming!

I like the shield idea, but worry that it may require us to make the borders along the bottom higher, which would decrease the total area available for viewing the map (which will eventually appear in the black section in the center). For the same reason, I'm not sure if I can make the words "increaseing" or "decreasing" fit, but I like the concept very much! Perhaps directional arrows next to the values (up, down, or a minus sign if the value is holding steady?).

The ranking/power is a good one too! Will see where I can add that in, and YES! Good use on the CB shield logo at the top center. That frees up some more space for buttons and the like!

Re: the vines....I think they look too bold right now mostly cos of the black background in the center of the screen....once we get the map in there, I think that problem will go away....hope so anyway, but if not, I'll play with the hue a bit and see what that gets us.

The globes! I forgot to mention those.....the idea is that the globes will start off being empty glass, and as you collect mana and influence, they'll slowly "fill" with color, representing increasing capabilities (and hopefully, a mouseover effect to tell you the precise amount of mana/influence).

-=Vel=-

	02-12-2002 20:09									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah, you can definitely use up/down arrows or a thumbs up or down. In fact that is what I had in mind. I just used the words to convey the overall idea. But it would be better to use up/down arrows or something small and graphical instead.

	02-12-2002 20:39									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You know...I hadn't thought of the thumbs up or down....that's a good image! Will have to see what I can find along those lines!

-=Vel=-

Last edited by Velociryx on 02-12-2002 at 20:46

	02-12-2002 21:34									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: The globes! I forgot to mention those.....the idea is that the globes will start off being empty glass, and as you collect mana and influence, they'll slowly "fill" with color, representing increasing capabilities (and hopefully, a mouseover effect to tell you the precise amount of mana/influence). -=Vel=-

That is definitely very creative. You do need to be careful IMO that the player clearly understands how those globes work and what they do. One of the worse things in any strategy game is to have stuff on the screen that the player doesn't know what it does. Things need to be as clear and intuitive as possible.

	02-12-2002 22:06									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

very good point! And one more reason to get some good documentation up and running to go along with our up-and-coming interface!

Got the idea for that from an old Silicon Knights classic....was how they handled spell point accumulation, and I adopted that for our purposes.

Soon as I finish this round of wrestling with the terrains, I'll revisit the main display screen and put in some tweaks based on comments here....see how she continues to evolve....

-=Vel=-

	02-12-2002 22:14									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow, I've been gone for a while. School and whatnot can really get in the way.

Anyway, finally looked at the screenshot myself. Good.
As far as the shields, they don't have to be gargantuan, mearly a simple symbol. The good thing about that is that one can use the color of the shield/icon to signify wether or not the value has increased or decreased. EG a green shield would indicate growth, red loss, black steady. Mabey.

The vine and the stone work well as a base. Further integration and work should make them look a bit more natural for each other. Thats all I have to say for now.

Back to school work.

	03-12-2002 04:03									#9
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Vel, you really need to sticky your graphics thread. It being locked and all, it'll fall right off the forums.

Oh, and those "globes" sound exactly like Diablo... Diablo I/II has those big blue and red globes for mana/hp on the main screen that fill with color... playing Diablo lately, Vel?

	03-12-2002 09:20									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Oh, and those "globes" sound exactly like Diablo... Diablo I/II has those big blue and red globes for mana/hp on the main screen that fill with color... playing Diablo lately, Vel?

Darnit. Beaten to the punch. I was going to say exactly the same thing.
I thought they looked just a bit small though. Maybe increase them in size by 50% or so and perhaps have the actual numerical value appear if you move the mouse over the globe?

[Edit: Couple of other points - What are the buttons labelled Gold(C) and Gold(M)? They sound just a bit too similar for my tastes.
Lastly I thought the green looked a little too close to the smiley in colour. I'd prefer something more like personally]



Btw, I think you could use a gamma correction thingummy for that midnight combat screen too.

	03-12-2002 10:01									#11
	Got spare money?

Gold: That would be the regular treasury and the military treasury.

Diablo: Yep. I'm fast!

	19-12-2002 02:36									#12
	GUI suggestions Put an end to popups!

A have a few comments about the GUI layout. I am not an art person, so I cannot comment the colors, artwork, etc.
1. I suggest to move every clickable button on the bottom of the GUI. It is very frustrating for the player to clicking on different part of the screen to reach different game options. (One exception could be the GAME menu button with the save load exit etc. somwhere on the top.)
2. You need a big button for the next turn. This button is usually (in TBS games of course ) on the bottom right of the GUI. I suggest you can follow this tradition. Your players will be happy to find it on the traditional spot.
3. I suggest to move the statistic informations on the top row of the GUI. Probably the left top part has enough space to show the different resource/point labels.
4. I suggest also to put the points/resources on the GUI with different colors and with a nice little pictogram. I think for the money you can use a nice bright yellow color with a pile of gold, the Honor could be bright blue with a helmet/shield, etc.
5. The blue and yellow orbs are artistic, but imho you need to make them a bit bigger, so the player can "feel" if the mana or life level is low on the fly.
6. If you move the points/resources labels on the top of the GUI, you can put all the buttons on the bottom side by side, and you can make them double high.
7. I suggest you can to use some colorfull pictogram for the buttons with the text, and you can provide tooltip (what the user can switch off/on) to help the beginner users to explain wich button/gadget/point/etc. do/signal what.
I hope my suggestions help to you to make the GUI better functional and nicer.

	20-12-2002 03:07									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

instead of having 'army', 'budget', etc you should have all symbols which are buttons imo. when a player hovers the mouse over the symbol it should say what it is and any other brief information that is relevant. instead of 'gold (c)', 'gold (m)', 'honor', etc you should have little symbols that go right next to the the actual numbers. you also have too many buttons cluttered together imo, it looks bad. or better yet you could just blantantly copy this game's interface...

	20-12-2002 16:11									#14
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EU?

	20-12-2002 16:13									#15
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IMHO EU interface isnt so great. A few part of it is quite confusing and some screens are just overcrowded.