02-12-2002 19:59									#31
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TheStinger, right. Only thing that's different mostly is regulations about guns and drugs between western nations.

	02-12-2002 19:59									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I hate being right

You have nothing to worry about in that regard.

	02-12-2002 20:05									#33
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quote: It's a bit of a myth that Holland is free. Sure you can smoke pot, but that's about it. I can do that as well.

yeah you can. and I can shoplift. there are a lot of illegal things you can do in any nation. If you use that as a criteria, Somalia must be one of the freest nations.

But if you talk about what's legal, we can do a lot more here than you can in Britain. For one, we have far more rights for gays than you, or any other nations, has.

	02-12-2002 20:06									#34
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The article itself states that the matter of designation as being an "enemy" combatant is now being reviewed by the courts, and may ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.

What I think will happen is that the an accused citizen will have the right to have his designation reviewed by the courts. Once, however, his designation has been approved, the Courts have already decided that these special tribunals are legal. The article cites two WWII decisions by the Supreme Court, one concering a Nazi sabateur who was also a US citizen.

Well, we survived the Roosevelt administration and his reign of terror on our civil rights. I think we can survive Bush's.

BTW, Lincoln also suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. I believe he even ignored a Supreme Court holding that this was unconstitutional.

[Liberal rant]

Another Republican tyrant that brought infinite ruin to our nation's liberties!

Republican and Democrat scum - Lincoln and Roosevelt.

And now Bush!, following in the trail those two tyrants blazed into the swamps of tyranny!

OH MY GOD! The world is coming to an end.

[/Liberal Rant]

	02-12-2002 20:38									#35
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What's going to be interesting is if several lawsuits steming from this, if it comes to pass, pop up in different Circuits with different verdicts because I can guarantee you that the Supremes would rather avoid this issue if possible.

	02-12-2002 20:39									#36
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On a side note, I'm suprised that che wasn't the one to start this thread.

	02-12-2002 20:42									#37
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Just a note. From my understanding, the combatant "crime" is being a combatant. He doesn't actually have to do anything else, as with most crimes.

Once he is a determined to be a combatant, I believe he should be held pending the termination of the war.

	02-12-2002 23:18									#38
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Whine whine whine.

"Probable terrorists should have due process, nuclear tests cause cancer."

Sheesh.

	02-12-2002 23:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I hate being right... (BRING ON THE FLAMES REPUBLICANS)

Except that the Democrats are going along with all this. This isn't a partisan issue. It's about a government that no longer functions as intended.

quote: If I could legally smoke pot, I'd probably forget about a lot of America's problems

And that's exactly the motive of the drug legalizers. Recall the function of soma in "Brave New World."

	02-12-2002 23:42									#40
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Hey now, I know for a fact Abe Lincoln would approve of this.

	03-12-2002 00:26									#41
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You think you're free? Ha! No one is free. Freedom is an utopic dream.

	03-12-2002 00:47									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel oh, you poor slave. I pitty you, and all those hundreds of millions of americans who're being brutalized by the evil US regime... Where have the good ol' ways of the founding slavedrivers gone... Now just the other day, many american apolytoners were sent to the praries of alaska to mine deerdung, and the FBI went on patrolling the streets and taking people's money, to build an enormous statue of gold shaped like a penis. Sometimes I am simply shocked by the feelings certain westner(Including Israelis) express. 'The end of the world is coming, blah blah'. Be it terror acts, the economy, or the americans living in their harsh despotic regime Note I am not saying that this law is a good thing, not at all. But saying things like Wouldn't be correct even if the president would zombify the congress. Turn soldiers on any corner, and napalm broadway. So this is no more than farting in the wind and singing. People, don't forget that you've got it VERY good. Most of the people in the planet don't have even nearly the freedoms that you do.

This really isn't that big of a deal. Bush and Ashcroft can proclaim whatever they want, but the Congress and especially the Supreme Court have traditionally been uppity about this little concept known as "separation of powers."

Padilla's case is so far a one-off, and apparently he's dirty as hell, because no civil rights types have wanted to touch him as a test case. Probably, flying from Pakistan to Chicago after meeting with some people to plan a bombing wasn't such a hot idea.

Once someone's detained within the US and designated an enemy combatant, things will be a bit different. Get a few people like that, and the judiciary won't give a fair damn that the executive branch has proclaimed it has sole jurisdiction.

The Bushies are relying on ex parte Quirin as legal precedent, but Quirin is based on a very narrow and specific set of facts.

Right now, this isn't much more than Bush and Ashcroft weenie wagging.

	03-12-2002 00:57									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Jaakko You don't have to worry at all Evil Knevil, all the detainees are terrorists. If they weren't, they wouldn't have been detained in the first place. Surely we can trust the Bush admin to act in our best interest for us.

I presume that is sarcasm

Anyway, it is a scary idea, and one that would be open to abuse with impunity and no questioning. It demonstrates to me that the new episodes of Star Wars are happening in reality

The rest of the world have observed the continual slide of the US 'freedom', few people outside the US have any illusions in it. At this rate, that constitution isn't going to be worth the paper it is written on...the clampdown tightens...

	03-12-2002 01:19									#44
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quote: The rest of the world have observed the continual slide of the US 'freedom', few people outside the US have any illusions in it. At this rate, that constitution isn't going to be worth the paper it is written on...the clampdown tightens...

what are you talking about? What freedoms exactly did americans lose?

	03-12-2002 01:22									#45
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*ahem* Patriot act *ahem*

	03-12-2002 01:31									#46
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and that has actually changed the life of the American how ?

	03-12-2002 01:34									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc On a side note, I'm suprised that che wasn't the one to start this thread.

I don't normally read the Washington Post. Plus, I've been away from the forum for a few days. I'd pop in to see what was threading, and it all bored me.

	03-12-2002 01:50									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel and that has actually changed the life of the American how ?

Well this act has given the US government far reaching powers to act against 'terrorists'. But who defines what a terrorist is? Could someone who is politically 'deviant' like Che be defined as a terrorist if expedient? Could it give the government power to potentially silence it's enemies if it feels so threatened? That is very much a curtailment of freedom.

	03-12-2002 02:15									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin In the 17th century it was witches, in the 18/19th century it was masons, 20th century it was commies, 21st century its terrorists. There is nothing new, the US is just forever paranoid.

The US isn't paranoid......it's just that everyones out to attack them!!! Edit: So they gotta strike FIRST!!!

	03-12-2002 02:18									#50
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Yep, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you.

	03-12-2002 02:19									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's It's a bit of a myth that Holland is free. Sure you can smoke pot, but that's about it. I can do that as well.

Or in your case, fry it and put it in a yoghurt

	03-12-2002 03:25									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Jules And that's exactly the motive of the drug legalizers. Recall the function of soma in "Brave New World."

Isn't that why Prozac, Ritalin, etc. are now mandatory for some people? Destroy all natural human feeling, so that the masses will be more compliant. I read an interesting question in article once. The author asked if Napoleon or Caesar would have attempted to conquer Europe if they had been prescribed an anti-depressant.

	03-12-2002 03:33									#53
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quote: For one, we have far more rights for gays than you, or any other nations, has.

Look on the map. Your nose might stop over something spelled S-C-A-N-D-I-N-A-V-I-A.

Please use that fat knob above your collar. If you did (when hell freezes over) most of your posts would be unnecessary.

	03-12-2002 03:53									#54
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley Isn't that why Prozac, Ritalin, etc. are now mandatory for some people? Destroy all natural human feeling, so that the masses will be more compliant. I read an interesting question in article once. The author asked if Napoleon or Caesar would have attempted to conquer Europe if they had been prescribed an anti-depressant.

Burn the ritalin. As a person with ADHD I would really like to stop taking those pills.

	03-12-2002 04:07									#55
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Yeah, we have rights for gays too. We consider them ordinary people, I don't know what rights your gay community does NOT have?

If you're talking about right to get married, well it's all over these days. Nothing special about that.

	03-12-2002 20:15									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Hey now, I know for a fact Abe Lincoln would approve of this.

Hell, he pioneered it.

	03-12-2002 20:19									#57
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There's another relevant issue that's in the media today... anti-sodomy laws. Only in America (land of the religious self-righteous) will you find laws saying what consensual adults can and can't do.

Drug laws... anti-sodomy laws

Social Conservatism is nothing more than the "holier-than-thou" playing parent to the people.