03-12-2002 03:40									#1
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I originall posted this on the Hello thread - and got no comments. I am thinking of the significant ways a 'human' game is going to be different than against the AI.

"I always wish I could convince the AI to do this - with one or more allies we could reach agreement on researching techs. ie team A researches one tech, team B another - the agreement being to swap when done. Presto - you have doubled your tech research. With three civs in agreement, you could triple it. I expect with human opponents the old vassal strategy - of getting mega amounts of cash and tech from your opponents won't cut it. We should consider cultivating an early alliance and agreement with another team to this."

If we could get one, or two allies on side with this, we could blow through the tech tree quickly and gain a huge advantage on the others. Of course - we may turn on each other then - or someone may break the alliance by secretly selling the swapped techs on the side and gaining a further advantage. Hey - that could be us!!

Any thoughts?

	03-12-2002 03:46									#2
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By the way - thanks to Eli for this momentus occasion (well- at least for me) - I started my first thread.

	03-12-2002 04:02									#3
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Congrats on your first thread Beta!

Concerning research alliances...yes, I can see where it can be very advantageous (or very dangerous).

As a matter of fact, when my patner and I play (against 6 bots), we use this same tactic just to keep up with the AI.

Having a tech trading agreement with one of the other teams....It would have to be a very close and very friendly relationship...But quite frankly, I don't see how we can pull it off though...

	03-12-2002 05:17									#4
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Witt - thanks.

And a related question I was thinking about - in a game like this - where every team is chatting with the others in fora and chats and the like, you could actually make an alliance on turn 1, way before you ever meet another civ. Now - that's not quite in keeping with the spirit of the game.

In other words, do trades, alliances, MPP's and the like have to be done through the game mechanism (as if the other team was AI), or can they be done just by chatting and agreement outside of the game.

Has this been discussed to-date? (would be very hard to enforce...)

	03-12-2002 07:26									#5
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I think we need to be carefull about not getting left behind

also we need to make sure that deals are advantage us

Jon Miler

	03-12-2002 08:04									#6
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Jon - I agree - but you can't have it both ways. If we don't want to be in alliance - we may get left behind. If we do get in an alliance - no guarantee it it will be to our advantage over the ally. Or - we need to ensure we get out of the alliance what we want - if that is a tech lead - so be it. Let's gamble and do the alliance. We won't be behind as a result - maybe not just as far ahead as the team we did the alliance with.

In summary - I would rather be behind just one team as opposed to all.

If we have thought of this idea - I'm sure the others have. By checking out some of the other public forums, the foreign ministers are already very active.

HOWEVER - in response to my own thought above, there is no way to trade a tech until you have met the other civ in the game. Hmmm...

The comment about alliances and MPP's still hold. They could be done outside the game.

	03-12-2002 10:52									#7
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Well put Beta...yes, the other foreign "ambassadors" have been rather busy with the other teams.

Have any "Ambassadors" from the other teams made any motions towards us yet?

	03-12-2002 12:45									#8
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we almost need to do this if others are doing it. Or we will fall behind in tech quickly.

But how will we tell if others are doing this? That's a toughie. Any ideas?

	03-12-2002 12:48									#9
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but what we should do is try to find other civs/teams which we may have a common line of thinking with. We can form alliances with them.

In other worsd don't be trash talking and piss everyone else off. I'm sure its OK to piss a few of them off- just not all of them . We may need friends.

	03-12-2002 15:11									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident but what we should do is try to find other civs/teams which we may have a common line of thinking with. We can form alliances with them.

During the early game, any civ will do.

We are Persians, we have Immortals. So I dont think we will be seeing an early war, unless we initiate it. Our neighbors will prefer to stay in peace with us and we will use it to trade technologies even with the war mongering ones.

	03-12-2002 15:17									#11
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Our strategy could be marketly different if we are on an island. We need to find this out asap.

*taking another look* it looks like it possibley goes further west in just 1 square. That could be enough. possibley an isthmus?

	03-12-2002 16:23									#12
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It doesnt look like an island. Probably a peninsula. There should be more land south and south west.

	03-12-2002 18:10									#13
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Witt - I have a sense that we are flying below folks radar right now. I haven't seen anything public about a team approaching us other than that initial one from GS or GoW. I can't rememebr which. I will go back and check it.

Has anyone else on the team been approached off-forum?

Dissident - I agree that we should stay fairly friendly with everyone for now.

So - do we just stay low key. Or should the controller go out and actively chat with the others.

BTW- who is the controller now? Eli or Flash?

	03-12-2002 18:57									#14
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There isnt much to do, so whoever is online should play the game.

The only thing we need to decide on is what tile to terraform next.

	03-12-2002 19:36									#15
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Or - build a road for the first settler out of the hopper. See my note on the Starting Position thread.

	03-12-2002 21:10									#16
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Witt - I have a sense that we are flying below folks radar right now. I haven't seen anything public about a team approaching us other than that initial one from GS or GoW. I can't rememebr which. I will go back and check it.

Actually, if you go to the Civ3-PtW Democracy Game Forum, different alliances have their own open to everyone thread...if you read through them, you will see "Ambassadors" from other teams posting their greetings and so forth in them. This is what I call "greasing the wheel" and IMO, is the start of the diplomacy game...

	03-12-2002 22:40									#17
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Witt - I concur. I have also been reading through the other team threads. Lots of introductions going on. Which as I said earlier - in someways is a bit odd since the teams have yet to meet on the map - but is inevitable on aforum such as this.

I have been chatting a bit with the Germans on Demogyptica. Not about Vox foreign affairs. They seem like a decent bunch.

I guess the other thread will determine how we run foreign affairs, and if it will be left up to the comntroller.

	04-12-2002 01:41									#18
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well, gow has contacted me about forigen relations. Anyway if were on a pensilusa and there is a civ below us. Thats going to be bad we will be boxed in and we better hope there is iron near us. Becuase we will have to fight to get through them.