04-12-2002 01:30									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I support mandatory service, with the provision it ONLY applies to Floyd.

Should they be able to shoot him if he tries to be Mitty?

	04-12-2002 01:31									#32
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Spain got rid of mandatory service some years ago... they found out the maintaining a conscript force was no good. I do not support mandatory service and maintain that it remains voluntary.

	04-12-2002 01:34									#33
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I'll vote for Conscription, because my refusal/resistence would hurt the government more in that situation.

	04-12-2002 01:34									#34
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Either works for me, since they'd kick me out of the military anyway.

	04-12-2002 01:35									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Either works for me, since they'd kick me out of the military anyway.

I wonder why?

	04-12-2002 01:37									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I'll vote for Conscription, because my refusal/resistence would hurt the government more in that situation.

Why don't you tell me what the difference between the two is?

	04-12-2002 01:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Should they be able to shoot him if he tries to be Mitty?

As long as it's regulation.

	04-12-2002 01:53									#38
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I will be surprised, no, make that shocked, if a veteran comes into this thread and picks conscription.

Veterans are -- by definition -- idiots. If they were intelligent, they'd be civilians and/or deserters.

If you don't like it, you can always leave. I hear the "government" in places like Somalia and Sierra Leone pretty much leaves you alone.

Try Quebec instead. You have to put up with francophones, but, whenever conscription is introduced, the government can't chase down everyone fast enough and you can slip through their evil fingers.

	04-12-2002 02:02									#39
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I'd prefer mandatory service, for EVERYONE....including women. Why don't they have the obligation to serve (in most countries with mandatory service)?

Keep them separate from the men if you want, but gender equality has to amount for something...even more so in times of war, where every soldier counts.

	04-12-2002 02:17									#40
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Geez people... mandatory service does nothing but create a large but highly ineffective force. That is why we got rid of it. If not, I would serving once I finish high school in the Spanish Army.

	04-12-2002 02:23									#41
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Better that than being drafted out of nowhere when you're in the middle of [insert some other activity], though.

	04-12-2002 02:27									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "In the entire history of the United States, not one war has taken place without conscription. " The Gulf War? The Afghanistan war?

A prolonged war. Without intent to offend any Vet, I don't know that I'd even count The Gulf as a war, at least not from American perspective.
Israel taking scud hits would have a different viewpoint.

Fez, go away son, ya bother me.
Mandatory service makes options available, both to the services and the service member.
A base is nothing more than a city. Same requirements to keep it running. The military isn't entirely paratroopers and fighter pilots; we've talked of that before. "Optional Service" isn't really necessary.

Some people let the prospect of military duty just tear up their bowels, and without any real reason.
I'm not saying I was any different. My gums got swollen and bleeding from stress, before I reported. But look at them now. Nice, huh? It wasn't all bad. Mostly good.

	04-12-2002 02:29									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why don't you tell me what the difference between the two is?

There is no real difference, but why don't you read Slowwhand's explenation on the first page if you are having a hard time understanding what this is about?

	04-12-2002 02:33									#44
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Yeah. I eventually sputtered out definitions fairly well.
Thanks, Osweld.

	04-12-2002 02:35									#45
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I despise mandatory service. Immoral, barbaric and brutal. It steals your freedom, you're basically put in jail. You don't have the right to choose where you live, or whatever.

Bad things happen during it. You can get beat up/raped by other serving people, if they grow to dislike you.

I wouldn't shoot anyone. Even if the independence of my country depended on it. I have luckily not been in such a situation, but I don't believe I could shoot.

	04-12-2002 02:42									#46
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Sorry, not gonna vote here since it's the same thing.

Conscription is a good thing. Join the army! For one year.

Swallow your hurt pride Texan and make a new poll!

	04-12-2002 02:47									#47
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Lars, you must be tripping on the same stuff Solver is on.

	04-12-2002 02:51									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld There is no real difference,

That's what I've been saying all along.

	04-12-2002 02:58									#49
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There is a difference. I don't know what's so difficult to comprehend. It's me, I know it is. Let me try again.

Conscription IS a draft.
They decide how many warm bodies they want, take everybody's birthday, put it in a hopper, and like the lottery, BOOM. Here's our winner's.
And these "winner's" go where they're sent, period.
It only happens during a declared war.

Mandatory Service.
For a pre-defined period of time, all people serve the country. Let's say between high school and college, which seems to be the norm, and makes the most sense.

You can't see the difference?

	04-12-2002 03:04									#50
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Sloww: I don't care what half-assed explaination you come up with to split hairs. They are is no meaningful difference between the two.

	04-12-2002 03:09									#51
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That's ridiculous. It isn't my explanantion, it's you being pig-headed.
The 2 are absolutely nothing alike, Doc.

	04-12-2002 03:11									#52
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We have conscription in my country and we're not at war.

	04-12-2002 03:15									#53
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We have mandatory military service in Finland. 6-12 months, depending on what they'll make out of you...

If you have ethic or religious convictions that prevent you from performing military service (like I do), you can perform civil service (13 months) instead.

OR if you have strong ethic or religious beliefs that prevent you from performing the civil service, you can go to jail (6½ months) as a prisoner of conscience. You won't get a criminal record. Every year a handful people chooses to do this. For most the reason is either
a) The unfair length of civil service when compared to military service, or
b) The fact that civil service men would still be required to serve in the army in case of war, or
c) A general protest against the "system"

As for the poll... I'll pick the "neither"-option.

	04-12-2002 03:21									#54
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Finland must have a comprehension problem, too.
Neither ? Not an option.

	04-12-2002 03:22									#55
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I agree with you Slow, mandatory service not draft.

Historically the draft has been shown to be unscrupulously unfair and b/c of that it has a huge stigma. Civil war conscriptions allowed fat cats to buy their way out all the way up to the exemptions made for Vietnam draftee's later curtailed.

What I really wanted to post though is once again I find rational thought from Rah and of all place Che in that the mandatory service would provide untold social benefits.

I would go so far as to emulate the ancient civs that allowed full citizenship to those who had put in their service while a limited citizenship for those yet pending. Since we are talking a 18-21 yr old it luckily coincides with some of the rights to vote, drink, etc.

	04-12-2002 03:26									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Finland must have a comprehension problem, too.

	04-12-2002 03:31									#57
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So we have at least Ogie, RAH, Che, and a couple others who at least get it. (I might have included Ming, but he's still on my list for today )


? Still struggling, Anodyne ?

	04-12-2002 08:00									#58
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I'm afraid I don't see conscription and mandatory military service as anything more than involuntary servitude/slavery, so in that sense, they are indentical.

quote: But David, you post toastie, "neither" is not a choice.

Neither is always a choice, because one always has the choice to do the right thing.

quote: In the entire history of the United States, not one war has taken place without conscription.

Relevance? That just means the US is generally immoral.

quote: I would hazard the guess that nearly every country could say the same.

See above.

quote: Your answer is limited to one or the other, an "abomination" to you or not.

No it isn't.

	04-12-2002 08:09									#59
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quote: I despise mandatory service. Immoral, barbaric and brutal. It steals your freedom, you're basically put in jail. You don't have the right to choose where you live, or whatever. Bad things happen during it. You can get beat up/raped by other serving people, if they grow to dislike you. I wouldn't shoot anyone. Even if the independence of my country depended on it. I have luckily not been in such a situation, but I don't believe I could shoot.

Echo.

	04-12-2002 08:28									#60
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo I will be surprised, no, make that shocked, if a veteran comes into this thread and picks conscription. Veterans are -- by definition -- idiots. If they were intelligent, they'd be civilians and/or deserters.

Wow, what a truly idiotic statement. Civilians are cowards who can't fight for their beliefs, whatever they are.

P!ss off coward.