04-12-2002 12:20									#1
	New UUs for each civ? Put an end to popups!

I'm thinking of getting started on a mod that adds an extra UU to each civilization, hopefully meaning they cover more time (although this is difficult with the likes of the Carthaginians or the Americans).

It is possible to put more units into the game without cutting out other ones right?

	04-12-2002 12:25									#2
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I thought of a few early ideas:

Japanese Kamikaze Planes (a weaker missile-type unit that can be built with Flight)

Improved American Marines perhaps.

German U-boats, although I would like to put in something from an earlier time period

England could get either an improved archer unit (the longbowman, if i replaced the old longbowman with crossbowman) or perhaps a Spitfire...

Viking longboats.

Some kind of Spanish Armada naval unit

Arab terrorists (and oh dear, i apologise for this, except that i would actually personally LOVE to be able to launch attacks of unknown origin on my enemies... MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.... *ahem*)


Please, any ideas...?

	04-12-2002 17:10									#3
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Ideas for additional UUs? Here are some:

Germany: Line-Infantry (Prussian), German Knight ("Ordensritter")

China: Junk

Carthago: War-Elephants

England: Highlander (well, its british...), Lobsters (means Royal Marines in napoleonic era), Longbowman as you suggested

Some others are verry difficult to find to me. I don't know much about korean history e.g.

	04-12-2002 18:02									#4
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I included a lot of custom units to my game (about twice the number of original units (I know I'm crazy)), a lot of which are civ-specific.

Those are:

Greece:
- Phalanx (2/3/1, available with iron working, NOT replacing swordsman)
- Spartan Hoplite (same as original Hoplite with +1 HP)
- Fire Galley (better offensive value, available with invention)

England:
- Longbowman (4/2/1, everybody else gets the crossbowman with the original 4/1/1-stats)
It cannot start a GA, because IMHO this definitely has to be a later period for England (Man-O-War).
- Dreadnaught replaces my custom battlecruiser (stats somewhere between ironclad and battleship, available with refining)
- Scots guardsman (5/5/1, available with military tradition, everyone else in my mod gets the fusilier (3/5/1))

China:
- Cho-ko-nu replacing the standard crossbowman, same stats, but available with mathematics instead of invention.

Persia:
- Sassanid cavalry (4/2/2, with feudalism every Civ in my mod gets medieval cavalry with 3/2/2)

Rome:
- Ballista (a better catapult)

Germany
- Better submarine (Wolfpack)
- Tiger Tank (+2 attack and defense, but more expensive, of course not replacing the Panzer)

Japan:
- Yamato-Class-Battleship (bigger, better, more expensive, not replacing the standard battleship)
- Kamikaze (doesn't trigger GA. A country that sacrifices its soldiers certainly doesn't have a GA at that time, but I think this won't be a problem, because the samurai will most probably already have triggered a GA in the medieval age)
- A better BattleMech (I implemented ten future techs and a lot of SciFi-units, didn't test it yet)

Russia:
- T34, +2 defense compared to standard tanks

Egypt:
- 3/1/1-Archer

France:
- Foreign Legionary (6/6/1, available with industrialisation)

India:
- Elephant archer (3/3/2, replacing the before mentioned medieval cavalry (and getting an additional hitpoint like the war elephant does in my mod))

Babylon
- Camel Rider, again replaces medieval cavalry, movement 3

America
- Super carrier, everyone else gets the nuclear carrier, both available with nuclear power.
- Apache Heli replaces the Attack Heli, available with Laser


Some Civs didn't get additional UUs, because I'm lacking ideas. I know that this is not at all fair, but so what! I don't play them and the AI doesn't complain.


I don't yet have PTW (living in Germany), but (of course ) I already have some ideas:

Vikings
- of course it will be the longboat (available with engeneering, doesn't sink in sea tiles)

Carthagians
- Maybe a better galley and an early war elephant

Ottomans
- A better cannon

Spanish
- Maybe a better Galleon

	04-12-2002 18:09									#5
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The Greeks perhaps an army in which hoplites can be put and that can only be created by them: the phalanx.

The Russians a sort of a plane that can go over land as well as water and that can move troops over a very large distance. The Soviets used it.

And maybe chemical or biological weapons. I would dearly like to have rockets with chemical weapons. Of couse the origin of the attacks must be kept unnown, like the terrorist attacks.

	04-12-2002 18:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Aidun The Greeks perhaps an army in which hoplites can be put and that can only be created by them: the phalanx.

This could work, if you give the phalanx-army the 'only transports foot units'- and the 'only carries tactical missiles'-flags and flag the Hoplite as both.
Not a bad idea. Has to be tested.

quote: Originally posted by Aidun The Russians a sort of a plane that can go over land as well as water and that can move troops over a very large distance. The Soviets used it.

I think this won't work. This has been the problem with implementing the Attack Chopper. It cannot simultaneously be flagged as land and sea-unit.
At least it doesn't work with standard civ. I don't yet know the PTW-editor.

quote: Originally posted by Aidun And maybe chemical or biological weapons. I would dearly like to have rockets with chemical weapons. Of couse the origin of the attacks must be kept unnown, like the terrorist attacks.

A cruise missile with higher bombard stats and hidden nationality? That's ! But be careful with hidden nationality units. I've read several threads of people, who tried hidden nat land units and they often reported that the AI uses them in masses.

	04-12-2002 23:37									#7
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This subject came up a loooong time ago in the old Civ3 forum, but I'm happy to re-hash it.

Here's my suggestions:

American:

Minutemen - same as muskets, but with an extra movement point and "blitz" capability

Tomahawk - Cruise missile with extended range and perhaps greater bombard power.

Aztec:

Bandit - This is a stretch; basically assuming part of the Aztec culture morphed into 19th century Mexico. Cavalry unit with hidden nationality flag.

Babylonians:

No idea here...

Chinese:

Ninja - Similar to the Japanese Samurai. I'd suggest invisibility, but that would make them way too powerful in the appropriate stages of the game.

Egyptians:

No idea here, either...

English:

Dragoons - Amphibious cavalry

SAS - Paratrooper with extra movement point

French:

Foreign Legion - Guerilla with hidden nationality tag

Germans:

U-Boat - submarine with additional offensive bonus

Greeks:

Olympian - Warrior with extra movement point. (yes, this is probably my lamest suggestion)

Indians:

Thugee - Swordsman with additional defense bonus (maybe I've seen "Temple of Doom" too many times...)

Iroquois:

Brave - Warrior with extra offensive bonus (not much late-game UU potential with this Civ, unfortunately)

Japanese:

Kamikaze - Haven't tried it, but would be cool if you could give a fighter the "cruise missile" tag, and launch it from a ship, with lethal sea bombard available.

Persians:

No idea here.

Romans:

Gladiator - Medieval infantry with hidden nationality tag, lower defense score.

Russians:

MiG Fighter - Jet fighter that doesn't require aluminum.

KGB - Explorer with invisibility tag - not available until Computers

Zulu:

Again, a civ with limited UU options.

Arabs:

al Quaida - Guerilla with hidden nationality tag and cruise missile tag. Lower defense.

Carthaginians:

No clue...

Celts:

Another primative civ with no modern UU option, in my opinion. Only thing notably Irish these days is Guiness beer, the Boston Celtics, and the University of Notre Dame.

Koreans:

Tae Kwon Do Master (or something to that effect) - Perhaps a medieval infantry unit equivalent, with maybe an added movement bonus.

Mongols:

Horde - Really, really cheap horsemen.

Spanish:

Spanish Galleon - Frigate with transport capabilities.

Ottomans:

Pass

Vikings:

Valkyrie - Basically, a mounted Berserk - similar properties, with an added movement point.

	05-12-2002 07:03									#8
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Wow, lots of input. Thanks to you guys I now have HEAPS of workable ideas.
The only problem with some of the units I would like to use (ie. Bandits, terrorists, etc) is having a UU with a hidden-nationality. I mean realistically wouldnt that defeat the point?

sadly, there are lots of suggestions for england that I want to use, but I can't give them more than anyone else (or can I? hehe...)

I like the idea of american minutemen and prussian line-infantry, mainly because they give these civilasations something a little earlier on in the game.

Keep them coming

Der PH - I like the sound of some of your changes, especially new technology, cause I've always felt the civ games needed to look forward just a little bit more...

	05-12-2002 07:06									#9
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Oh and do you think a special longbowmen unit would work for the celts, rather than the english? (thus freeing me up to unleash one of numerous other possible english UUs on the world...

	05-12-2002 15:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Horseman 4.5 Oh and do you think a special longbowmen unit would work for the celts, rather than the english? (thus freeing me up to unleash one of numerous other possible english UUs on the world...

You are right!
AFAIK the English copied the Longbowman from the Welsh, who are descendant from the Celts.
But since the English were famous for the Longbowman I think I will leave it as an English unit, too (without the ability to trigger GA. For the Celts it will be irrelevant, if their Longbowman can trigger a GA, since theirs will already have taken place due to the Gallic Swordsmen).

	06-12-2002 03:48									#11
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Ideally, the unique units should come from different eras.

My suggestions:
India - Gurkhas, replacing Riflemen
Vikings - Carolean, a Swedish 18th century soldier, replacing Cavalry

	06-12-2002 14:37									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Optimizer Ideally, the unique units should come from different eras.

As it is easy to see, I didn't care for this limitation.
If you do, a lot of my additional UUs won't be useful, of course.

	06-12-2002 15:21									#13
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The ones from my plain Civ3 mod (not PTW yet):

Oh, note that some of these are stretching things a bit.

Rome: Peltast (2/2/2 2b/0r, zoc) at monarchy (javilineers; rome was famous for using javelins); replaces nothing

Egypt: Janissary (5/5/1 4b/0r, saltpeter) at gunpowder; replaces musketmen (note that I beefed up the attack and defense of musketmen by 1 each, so this only has +2 attack)

Greece: Hypaspist (3/2/1 +1 hp) at iron working; replaces swordsmen (note: doesn't need iron, just like the hoplite; has +1 hp just so it's useful on maps where you have iron)

Babylon: Horse Archer (3/2/2 3b/0r horses) at invention; doesn't replace anything (cheaper than knights and doesn't require iron, in case that's a problem, also has the 0 range bombard; not really a historical unit)

Germany: Pocket Battleship (20/10/4atr 10(4)b/2r oil) at Mass Production; doesn't replace anything (cheaper than normal battleships, which are 26/12/4atr 12(4)b/2r oil)

Russia: T34 (20/14/2 oil) at Motorized Transportation; replaces Tank (20/10/2 oil)

China: Chu-Ko-nu (5/3/1 4b/0r) at Invention; replaces Crossbowmen (which are a replacement for the new English UU, Longbowmen; crossbowmen are 4/2/1 4b/0r)

America: Got fancy here. National Guard (6/10/1 6b/0r cost 1 pop) at Replaceable Parts; doesn't replace anything. Normal Infantry are 9/15/1 rubber; these guys are cheaper and have all the jobs that workers can do (and the worker AI to go along with it).

Japan: Yamato Class Dreadnought (30/15/4atr 15(6)b/3r oil) at Motorized Transportation; doesn't replace anything (more expensive but better than battleships)

France: Leclerc (30/15/4bl oil rubber aluminum) at Synthetic Fibers; replaces Monder Armor (which is 30/15/3bl oil rubber aluminum)

India: Elephant Archer (3/3/2 3b/0r +1 HP) at Monarchy; doesn't replace anything

Persia: Cataphract (5/4/2 horses iron) at Chivalry; replaces Knights (more expensive; also not really a historical unit; these will probably get moved to the Ottomans in PTW since they have Byzantium(Istanbul))

Aztecs: Plumed Archer (2/1/2 2b/0r) at Warrior Code; replaces Archers (Aztecs are now *the* premier ancient era civ for combat, but they waste their GA fast and they don't have anything special past the ancient era; note that plumed archers are actually Mayan, not Aztec)

Zulus: Sarwe (3/1/1) at Warrior Code; replaces Archers

Iroquois: Eagle Warrior (2/1/1) no tech; replaces Warriors (a little bit of a stretch and a native american would probably skin me for the stereotyping, but I needed something)

English: Longbowmen (5/2/1 5b/1r) at Invention; replaces Crossbowmen (note that these guys can bombard at 1 square instead of just a defensive bombardment like crossbowmen/chu-ko-nu)

Thoughts for PTW UU's:

Vikings: Longboat (same stats as galley but doesn't sink in sea, possibly ocean if it's moved back in techs)

Koreans: Turtle ship (some kind of heavier-armored transport ship)

Spanish: Tercio (dunno what to do with them, but seems like everyone thought this should have been the UU in PTW for them)

	06-12-2002 18:00									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Zurai France: Leclerc (30/15/4bl oil rubber aluminum) at Synthetic Fibers; replaces Monder Armor (which is 30/15/3bl oil rubber aluminum)

How does it work having a 4 move modern armor? Isn't that just too powerful?

	06-12-2002 19:26									#15
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quote: How does it work having a 4 move modern armor? Isn't that just too powerful?

Not in my mod. MechInf and Armored Shock Infantry (futuristic, powered-armor infantry) both have mid-20's defense in my mod, so they pretty handily defeat MA/Leclercs when defending anything worth defending.

I just posted those as ideas - my mod's pretty radical and I don't expect anyone to actually use my values for the units. They're just a reference. I increased the A/D of all gunpowder+ units, and gave extra HP to modern armor units; I added several futuristic units (spider crawler, hovertank, powered armor infantry, starfighter, orbital dropship); I added functional, *useful* airlift units (helicopter and dropship); I added functional attack helicoptors (non-immobile air units; they can fly over land and sea, however the AI doesn't use them, not that I let it get that far anyway); I added an extra civ-specific unit for every civ; I added "flavor" alternate units for some civs (junks instead of caravels for asian civs, camel riders instead of knights for middle eastern civs, etc). I doubled the number of units in the game, basically.

/tangent

Anyway, those were just ideas for UU's. Take em or leave em, doesn't bother me either way. Incidentally, there are graphics and animations made for all of those units if you do a tiny bit of searching.

	06-12-2002 19:49									#16
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Didn't mean to offend you. Just wanted to know how it worked.

	07-12-2002 03:54									#17
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I agree with the idea for a foreign legion unit for the French. Maybe to replace the rifleman or infantry?

How about a war elephant(2.2.2) for Carthrage? That is good

England should have some sort of Dreadnought. It wouldn't be obsolete as quick as the MOW.

America has an improved marine of some sort. That would work.

I think it might be a stretch but the Celts could get an IRA gunman to replace guerilla with hidden nationality. Maybe, or maybe not.

All I have to say.

	07-12-2002 07:13									#18
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Didn't mean to offend you. Just wanted to know how it worked.

You didn't offend me It was an honest question, and one I asked myself as well before I actually tried the unit in a game.

	07-12-2002 08:41									#19
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Any possible places to looks for good graphics for any of these new UUs?

	07-12-2002 08:56									#20
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I just had a thought - for those ancient civilizations that have less impact in modern day (ie. Aztecs, Iroquois, etc), perhaps it might not be stupid to create them UUs with a slight future addition to tech. tree. For example, an Aztec 'Junglecat' Mech. or sumet

What do you think?

	07-12-2002 09:23									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Horseman 4.5 Any possible places to looks for good graphics for any of these new UUs?

I got all mine of CFC (civ fanatic's center). They have a couple hundred fully completed unit graphics/animations in their forums, all nicely indexed with preview graphics.

EDIT: there's also quite a few nice ones here in the Files forum. CFC has almost all of the ones that are here though, in addition to the several dozen they have that we don't.

	07-12-2002 15:25									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Horseman 4.5 Oh and do you think a special longbowmen unit would work for the celts, rather than the english? (thus freeing me up to unleash one of numerous other possible english UUs on the world...

Actually, the longbow is more a Welsh weapon than an English one. So, Welsh being more of celtic ascend than English, it could be OK

	08-12-2002 11:12									#23
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This idea could solve Korean GA problem without changing the hwacha.

Also, US and enland could get a land unit w/o changing current UU...

	09-12-2002 10:05									#24
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Yeah thats kind of the idea I was going for. As well as trying to spread units out over the ages a little more.

	09-12-2002 13:47									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Horseman 4.5 Any possible places to looks for good graphics for any of these new UUs?

http://www.civfanatics.net/files/ci...n=category&id=3

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=22289

http://www.civ3files.com/cgi-bin/Ma...e=Civ3ShowUnits

These three pages include mainly the same unit graphics, but some graphics are not available in all of them.

	09-12-2002 22:22									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

Would you be interested in some of my own suggestions?

Arabs:
Camel Rider - Should replace the "Horseman" unit. Don't really know what stats it should have.

America:
Minutemen - Should replace the "Musketman"

Aztecs:
Eagle Warriors - I think this should replace the Jaguar Warrior in the Ancient Age and have the Jaguar Warrior become accessible in the Middle Ages. Eagle Warriors should have the Jaguar Warrior's movement of 2 while the Jaguar Warrior could replace Medieval Infantry

China:
Chu-ko-nu Archers - Should replace the Longbowman unit. Don't know what stats it should have, though.

Egypt:
Archers of the Eyes - They're actually Nubian, but the region once known as Nubia is in the vicinity of Egypt. Archers of the Eyes should replace longbowmen for Egypt and were known for their deadliness, thus maybe their attack power should be boosted up a point.

England:
English Longbowman - The longbow was one of the most important military innovations for the English during the Middle Ages. Perhaps this UU could have its attack power increased by 1?
-or-
Spitfire MK 1 - This could replace the "Fighter" unit.

Japan:
Yamato-Class Dreadnought - Replaces the "Battleship". Not sure what its stats should be. Perhaps it could have stronger attack power?

Mongols:
Hussar - Should replace the "Horseman" unit.

Ottomans:
Ottoman Heavy Cannon - The Ottomans were known for their expertise in artillery, which allowed them to assault Constantinople.
-or-
Janissaries - Janissaries were some of the Ottoman Empire's finest warriors.

Korea:
Turtle Ship - The Korean turtle ship, designed by Admiral Yi Sun-shin, was the first armored canon-bearing ship in the world. Its ingenious design prevented the Japanese from invading Korea during Japan's Tokugawa Shogunate.

Russia:
T-80 Tank - A modern tank used in Russia today. I'm not sure what stats it should have though. Perhaps it could be cheaper to produce than regular "Modern Armor" units?

Spain:
Spanish Galleon - Replaces the Galleon and should have +1 to its movement points.

	09-12-2002 22:53									#27
	Re: New UUs for each civ? Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Horseman 4.5 It is possible to put more units into the game without cutting out other ones right?

Certainly! IIRC, you can have something like 256 different units in the game.

	10-12-2002 02:03									#28
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Azeem - camel rider is quite a good idea (its actually been suggested here for one or two different civs). I'd say it would probably just be a horseman unit that didnt require horses.

I'm going to try and compile my draft list of new UUs in the next couple of days.

Thanks to everyone for theyre halp, keep the suggestions coming :-)

	12-12-2002 21:42									#29
	Put an end to popups!

The camel rider thing is a bit like the Indians and their elephants.

They avoid the problem of having to get hold of something as troublesome as a supply of horses buy simply using elephants.

which does beg one rather obvious question...

	15-12-2002 08:50									#30
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You think getting hold of elephants is a problem? - no way!. Theyre the INDIANS, of course they have elephants, any fool knows that. They dont breed them, they just magically appear. Sheesh. Even if they start Europe....

heh