06-12-2002 14:44									#91
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hey Doc... I know your timing doesn't work for setting up games... but please register for the Civ II MP Civ group... it's a matter of spam, I mean pride

	06-12-2002 14:47									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I will compromise my ugly icon principles for the sake of spam.

Done

	06-12-2002 14:58									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks... that makes 52. Much appreciated

	06-12-2002 15:01									#94
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If you register does it add to your post count?

	06-12-2002 15:03									#95
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Now I see your motives.

I have never even heard of some of those 'players' though.

	06-12-2002 15:04									#96
	Tired of ads?

No... it doesn't. But it does mean that I'm less likely to nail you for spam for posting in a forum that you really have no business posting in

	06-12-2002 15:08									#97
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey, the truth is I'm dying to buy civ 3 and really really sad it don't work.

Remember all those countless posts we made on ideas for civ 3

	06-12-2002 15:16									#98
	Put an end to popups!

The problem is... they listened to TOO many of them. They have made a game that has taken to much of the fun out of it. Many of the complaints can be tracked directly to people saying such and such is too easy. Unfortunately, they went overboard... every time somebody posted a way to win, they killed it with the next patch. Bummer!

	06-12-2002 15:30									#99
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think that's quite true

	06-12-2002 15:37									#100
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You know, civ3 isn't a bad game......in fact it's quite good.....just not as good as it could have been.

I have always been sceptical about MP though.....the game seems less suited to it than civ2 (though that was probably serendipitous). I think it is symptomatic of the general problem of getting designers to think a bit more about MP, when SP is overwhelmingly the main market.

	06-12-2002 15:37									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We whined way to much... and now we have a game where they have taken all the fun out of it. The corruption model is a joke... and their attempts to remove ISCing were worse than the cure. Maybe after a few more patches it will be ok, but for now, Civ II is still the best alernative.

	06-12-2002 15:57									#102
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by deity then it's drinks all round.... on Hydey usually...

I think the person coming last in our current 4 way should buy the first round.

Pot of VB for me thanks Dad

	06-12-2002 22:09									#103
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think MP is the main market Doc, since every game these days has some kind of support for it...

The reason they're catching hell for this latest upgrade is because most of it could have been released as a patch, with the extras (New Civs and MP support) getting released towards the end of this month.

Another month working with gamespy(ware) and tweaking the MP would have been a great deal more important to the average player than the "wait for the next patch" fiasco we have going now.

	06-12-2002 22:14									#104
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox I think MP is the main market Doc, since every game these days has some kind of support for it...

This is flat wrong. For the vast majority of games the SP market is much bigger than the MP market....sure many games come with MP, but ultimately most games are designed with the SP market in mind. Civ 3 is a good example.

There are games where MP is as important as SP......things like AOM, or Warcraft 3, various FPS, but most games just don't have the MP interest to make the developers pay that much attention to MP.

	06-12-2002 22:21									#105
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Ming The problem is... they listened to TOO many of them. They have made a game that has taken to much of the fun out of it. Many of the complaints can be tracked directly to people saying such and such is too easy. Unfortunately, they went overboard... every time somebody posted a way to win, they killed it with the next patch. Bummer!

Cheer up Ming, We've also got Freeciv. Which stands alot closer to the original Civ1/2 model then Civ3 turned out to be.

I only wish more people would give it a try. With more people the alpha/beta/test-cycle would go far quicker. Oh well...maybe the SDL client wil help out.

	06-12-2002 22:21									#106
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike This is flat wrong. For the vast majority of games the SP market is much bigger than the MP market....sure many games come with MP, but ultimately most games are designed with the SP market in mind. Civ 3 is a good example. There are games where MP is as important as SP......things like AOM, or Warcraft 3, various FPS, but most games just don't have the MP interest to make the developers pay that much attention to MP.

So why then does EVERYGAME that comes out have MP support?

Or website devoted to MP play?

Even the monstrous EU was marketed quite a bit with the idea that MP was a big part of the deal. I think that SP is important, but by no means dwarfs what the MP fans of the game get either.

I guess we are looking at it from two different ends of the spectrum. Sure, having good SP play is vital to having a good MP game. But I think alot of resources go into MP support, which is sometimes damning for the game itself at the end of the day.

	06-12-2002 22:33									#107
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Most games have MP, as I said. It is expected. That doesn't change the fact that the amount of people that will play MP is often not yet sufficient for companies to think that much about MP when designing a game. Sometimes they may not conflict, and all is well, but other times they undeniably do.

My statement was that SP is the main market....this is overwhelmingly true, with the few notable exceptions I mentioned. For instance I play Medieval Total War a bit......this game is relatively popular MP, but still only has players registering in the 100s worldwide, compared with many thousands playing SP worldwide. Do you think the unit stats were more suitable for SP or MP? And did the first patch focus on SP or MP bugs? I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.

As more people get broadband things will undoubtedly change.....but the SP market still dominates designer's thinking for the moment.

	06-12-2002 23:27									#108
	Put an end to popups!

DEPENDING ON THE GAME, I WOULD SAY ITS A GENRE BASED THING, IE STARCRAFT IS BETTER ONLINE, CIV2 IS BETTER FOR SP MODE...THOUGH I PREFER MP...

FPS LIKE COUNTERSTRIKE..WAY BETTER IN MP....

I THINK SP MODE MAY HAVE BEEN THE RAGE AT ONE TIME, BUT I THINK INTERACTING WITH HUMANS IS THE THE PRESENT AND FUTURE, MANY GAMES ARE LEANING TOWARDS THIS..

THE PROBLEM IS THE GAMING CO'S WANT TO CASH IN TWICE

	07-12-2002 00:34									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by War4ever DEPENDING ON THE GAME, I WOULD SAY ITS A GENRE BASED THING, IE STARCRAFT IS BETTER ONLINE, CIV2 IS BETTER FOR SP MODE...THOUGH I PREFER MP... FPS LIKE COUNTERSTRIKE..WAY BETTER IN MP.... I THINK SP MODE MAY HAVE BEEN THE RAGE AT ONE TIME, BUT I THINK INTERACTING WITH HUMANS IS THE THE PRESENT AND FUTURE, MANY GAMES ARE LEANING TOWARDS THIS.. THE PROBLEM IS THE GAMING CO'S WANT TO CASH IN TWICE

Well, they're not forcing you to buy it now are they?

	07-12-2002 01:07									#110
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

For civ, if you read the threads in the CIVIII forums, you'd have seen that the majority of players could have given a rat's ass about MP. We were definately in the minority. Bastards

	07-12-2002 01:10									#111
	Increase Your PM Length

Quite, Rah

And it shows with all games outside of a few genres, such as FPS and some RTS.

But never fear, our time will come.

	07-12-2002 01:13									#112
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by rah For civ, if you read the threads in the CIVIII forums, you'd have seen that the majority of players could have given a rat's ass about MP. We were definately in the minority. Bastards

Yup, despite the problems in MP the majority don't seem to give a hoot.

Democracy just doesn't work

	07-12-2002 01:16									#113
	Inflate your Upload Space

Democracy works fine in theory. We just need to make everyone agree with me on all issues.

	07-12-2002 02:15									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

civ wasnt' really built for mp, and the games that sell the most these days, and a likely trend to continue are the fps and rts genre.....

MP is here to stay, but it should come stock and barrel with any game that plans to be played in MP forml.

charging twice just so i can play online isn't fair, and they wonder why i pirate haha.....

not that pirating is fair for anyone...lets not open that can of worms

	07-12-2002 02:18									#115
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Aye aye, cap'n.

	07-12-2002 02:32									#116
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

you forgot to make the parrot sound afterward forget again and its the plank for you

	07-12-2002 02:35									#117
	Got spare money?

Shut it, or tis a lick o' the cat for ya.

	07-12-2002 03:55									#118
	Increase Your PM Length

HEHE.... THAT CHRISTMAS SMILEY LOOKS GOOD WITH THE CAP.... ...

HEY CAPTVK...HOW IS FREE CIV COMING, I PLAYED WITH 32 CIVS AND RAN INTO FOUR SETTLERS IN THREE TURNS HAVE THINGS IMPROVED SINCE THEN?

	07-12-2002 04:12									#119
	Remove this text

War,

Inching it's way towards 1.14 as we speak. I was expecting january but.... IT MIGHT EVEN BE IN TIME FOR CHRISTMAS!!! (LOOK I'M SHOUTING NOW, JUST LIKE WAR DOES BUT THAT'S BECAUSE HE FORGOT THE CAPS LOCK KEY)

As for playing with 32 civs and running into four settlers, what did you expect? On normal map settings with the standard gen map things tend to be very tight (with 32 civs moving about that is). That's because civs will start out on the main landmasses and not islands. No wonder you bump into them. Try increasing the map size, the landmass and experiment with the map gen for better results. Or try playing with a lower number of civs

	07-12-2002 04:29									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

And because we're dealing with MP afficiados here's a nice feature in 1.14 that hasn't gotten much attention yet: the new TEAM function.

quote: A team is a group of players that start out allied, with shared vision and embassies, and fight together to achieve team victory with averaged individual scores. Team are controlled via the new server command "team". Teams can't change after the game has started.

Yes, in theory you can also do this with AI civs.