05-12-2002 06:30									#1
	Wish I knew about this long ago...also Moo2 strats? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, with the coming release of Moo3 I am interested in MoO again, and found these forums. So I guess I'll check out something I have always wondered about in Moo2.

Namely: Did you all come to the same conclusions I did about twhat the 'best' custom reace and strategy was.


To note, I usually play on all the normal galaxy settings, with Medium or Large galaxy, with 8 players, on impossible mode.
I found the opponents on impossible to be rediculously easy in all but small galaxy, where they are still not too difficult if you know the right early defensive strategies (which I learned from my multiplayer play) turns 80-120 are the critical time for me, when I need to use big ships packed with 2xshot, Mirv/ECCM/Fast Missles, as defense since at that time I have no computer/beam weapons.


My best custom race:

Subterranean Unification Pop Growth+100% Rich Homeworld,
with -10 pts out of (Repulsive, Attack-, Defense-, Ground-)

The key for me was to not put too many people on industrial production, but to use many as scientists, to perform my tech burst fast enough.

Another great race: Lithovore Unified Artifacts Home, Large Home, with same 10 minuses. This goes faster at the start, but the other will catch up in tech around turn 80-90 and go faster, due to more people.


My strategy: (mainly a tech order)

Research Lab, Reinforced Hull, Automated Factories. (that order) then continue on to Planetary Supercomp, then RoboMiners (getting spaceport before RoboM)

Somehwere in there, when I needed them, I would get the Pollution reducers/ range increasers (which give me the better missles for defense), and Hydroponic Farms or Biospheres, and Cloning plants (for the lithovore race) or Soil Enrich (for the Subterr race)..the soil enrich can wait until after Robo Miners usually.

Robo miners comes when I am in the midst of a big population expansion (usually I hit RoboM in turn 55-60 or so) and it jumpstarts a big colonization wave, until I hit the borders will all my neighbors. (I have around 100 research a turn now)

At that time I am going for Autolabs like crazy. I hit Autolabs around turn 100, and immediately buildthem in as many places as possible (I now have over 500 research per turn).

I then get a couple more chemistry techs to get good armor and help my missles, and then go crazy on the beam weapons tech (and I get a shield, ecm jammer, and other tiny stuff).
In the beam weapons (lower left) tech, there are also the sensors and command point bonus techs, which I get.

Then at around turn 140 I hit plasma cannons. I begin the construction of a number of huge ships before this, so they are almost ready (I flip ship designs at the last minute, to the new ship)

I get the computer tech that costs 6000 that gives a huge to hit bonus, (this will take like 10 more turns), and then go on to whatever tech I feel like....more construction, better weapons, etc, while conquering the galaxy with a fleet that is unbeatable at turn 150 (except by another human with this or similar strat)

By turn 200 I have won (on huge it takes until maybe 220-240 to mop up)


races which are similar to the ones I gave, and similar tech orders will work almost as well (or maybe even a little bit faster, if you found a more perfect combination of abilities than me)

Also: Creative is way too expensive, and unnecessary ;-)
Who cares that you got both Heavy Armor AND Missle Bases (or whatever other combos are a big deal, and there are some tough choices, I know), when I kill you with a large fleet of ships with good armor and lots of plasma cannons with a good computer on turn 150 (or even start attacking your weakly defended places with huge 2xMirv/ECCM/Fast nuclear missles ships on turn 100?



Anyways, is that similar to the strategy that others out there consider to be the "best"? Or is there something even better?

If so, what turn would you have the beginnings of a fleet of ships together that I could not stop with my defenses (those missle ships)?

I'd be interested to know if there was a strat even better than I could come up with in my hundreds of hours of play.

Thanks!

	05-12-2002 10:12									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well they are strong races, no doubt.
UniTol +1 P LHW
UniAQUA + 1P +50 growth LHW RHW
These are among the most common MP races. DemoLith is a strong race for SP , but there are many.
I am not sure I know what you mean by "huge" ships as that is a term used in Moo1. Do you mean Titan or Doom Stars? As a non creative, I will not have those techs most of the time and surely not by turn 200, as I would need to steal them. If someone had Doom Sar tech by then, you have got some problems.
I would say I see no reason to use Plasma Cannons in v131 games as they are too large for what they do. I would rather use modified Phasors or Disrupters. Not that most beams will work if you are in better ships than the enemy.

	05-12-2002 12:31									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmm, I played the Uni Tol +1 production a lot, and found that the race I made was a little bit faster in getting the tech I needed.

Uni Aqua +1P +50 growth is very, very much like my subterranean race. It is probably about the same, maybe it could be a bit better.

DemoLith is very much like my UniLithArtifacts, but I dont like the lower production and spying minus. Its very bad to go for a tech advantage race with a defensive spying minus! Thats part of why I always play Uni, never Democracy, since Uni has +15, demo -10 to spying defense.

By huge ship I meant the size 4 one (the one that is huge in Orion 1)

Plasma cannons ruled! You say they are too big in 1.31, did they make a later version where they changed them? That would change things a bit. If plasmas werent good, I would need to use some other tech for my kill, but the rest of it stays the same, just change the details...use Phasors or Disruptors instead like you say.


It seems like my races were very much like the ones most commonly used in MP...so I guess I came to about the same conclusion the people who played online ;-)
I would like to try that AquaUni +1P, 50grow sometime, but I gave away my moo2 CD like 3 years ago to a friend! (doh!) That one sounds like a tweak on my best construct that I didnt try (tried many similar combinations I think, like uni subterranean aqua growth, or uni sub aqua +1P.) BUt maybe that one is a little better...undoubptedly quite similar.

Thanks!

	05-12-2002 23:08									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Rules Changes
-------------
The attacker will now always move first in tactical battles, except
for the Antarans who will always move first regardless.

The Damper Field will block any marine casualties caused by Neutron
Blasters and Death Rays.

Ion Pulse Cannons now take 30 space, do 2-10 points of damage and
cannot be modified to be Heavy Mount.

Gyro-Destabilizers now take 75 space and cost 50BC. Their damage
has also been decreased to 1-4 per size class of target ship.

Plasma Cannons have been increased to 25 space.

The Creative racial ability now costs 8 picks. As a result, the base
Psilon race loses Artifact home world and gains Large home world.

These are from1.3.0. 130 and 131 made the computer less likely to surrender. Stopped the over powered plasma canons and gyros. Changed the inititive on combat.