09-12-2002 20:52									#31
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by planetfall No this is different. You are describing a fighter being used a light bomber. There is no AS role for outgoing bomber missions. AS only protects from city center. Even if your city is only 4 tiles from enemy city and you have a fighter on AS, that fighter will never engage the fighters attacking your bombers. Sometimes using a fighter as a bomber will work and other times not. I have seen AI ignore fighter bombing runs and wait to intercept the real bombers. == PF

Sending a fighter out on a bombing run with the purpose of taking the heat for your subsequent bombers will have as much chance of being intercepted as your bombers would (in the same location). Functions fine for offensive AS for me, since it's the best you can do.

If you turned the Chance to Intercept to 100% in the Editor, it would be all the time (if interceptors were available).

	09-12-2002 22:00									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Functions fine for offensive AS for me, since it's the best you can do.

Understand is "best you can do" under current Firaxis programming. BUT I think it needs to be changed. 2 jets should be able to suppy AS for ## of bombers inside the jets AS range.

What I would like to do: move one carrier next to coastal town. Put all 4 jets on AS. Use other 2 carriers of bombers to run missions with protection from the 4 jets running AS. After sorties, move carriers out of range of artillery and wait for next turn.

The current work around of jet bomber missions first and then 8 bomber missions is not the same as 4 jets providing AS for 8 bombers. The AI usually has 1..2 interceptors, but rarely more than 3 in one city. I would like the jets to take on jets, and only when AI has more jets than I do would it take on the bombers.

== PF

	10-12-2002 16:46									#33
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If I send out a jet fighter on a bombing mission and an enemy jet fighter intercepts it, what are the relevant A/D/M that are used? If I remember correctly jet fighters are 8/4/1, so does the bombing jet use its defence (4) against the intercepting jet's attack (8)?

Also, are jets limited to 1 intercept/turn? ie. if I have a jet on AS in a city and the AI does 4 bombing runs on it, can my jet potentially shoot down all 4 bombers, or just the first one it intercepts?

And SAM's only protect the city tile right? But the AI rarely bombs cities (maybe if it had precision bombing, but I have never got that far). Perhaps another function would be better, such as extending AS by 1 or 2 tiles. As it is I only build SAM's for SDI (again, if I ever get that far, usually when I choose to keep playing for the fun of it).

	10-12-2002 19:12									#34
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Why can't I bomb from a carrier? I click on the bomber, but it won't give me bombard options?

	10-12-2002 19:16									#35
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I also like to use carrier fighters for recon missions. So alot of times my carrier will have 2 fighters and 2 bombers. I use one fighter for recon, the other for either another recon, air superiority (depending on the AI air strength in the area) or bombing (if I find some good targets with the recon) then I use the bombers to run bombing missions on my newly spotted targets. In addition, a carrier with all fighters can provide superior scouting in a large area by flying recons. At least I know the sea that I plan to send my loaded transports through is clear of enemy warships. Another thing its fun to spot all of the AI ships sneaking around and pound them under. Like this I can usually find an enemy ship heading in on me and bomb it to redline before it even gets close to my carrier. Not to mention the joy of spotting loaded AI transports approaching my coastline and sinking them before they unload on my beaches. Oh yeah...you've go to love the carriers!

	10-12-2002 20:16									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Bambul If I send out a jet fighter on a bombing mission and an enemy jet fighter intercepts it, what are the relevant A/D/M that are used? If I remember correctly jet fighters are 8/4/1, so does the bombing jet use its defence (4) against the intercepting jet's attack (8)?

Yes, but that is better than the bombers D of 2.

quote: Also, are jets limited to 1 intercept/turn? ie. if I have a jet on AS in a city and the AI does 4 bombing runs on it, can my jet potentially shoot down all 4 bombers, or just the first one it intercepts?

Yes and no. First you have the chance of interception. Say it is 1/3. 3 AI bombers come in, and your AS jet intercepts on of them. Then the AS jet's turn is used and the 4th bomber comes in free.

quote: As it is I only build SAM's for SDI (again, if I ever get that far, usually when I choose to keep playing for the fun of it).

SAM's are good for basic city defense vs bombers. They are rarely killed by the AI, unlike AS jets. Also AI tends not to attack cities with SAMs as frequently.

== PF

	10-12-2002 20:17									#37
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Bambul If I send out a jet fighter on a bombing mission and an enemy jet fighter intercepts it, what are the relevant A/D/M that are used? If I remember correctly jet fighters are 8/4/1, so does the bombing jet use its defence (4) against the intercepting jet's attack (8)? Also, are jets limited to 1 intercept/turn? ie. if I have a jet on AS in a city and the AI does 4 bombing runs on it, can my jet potentially shoot down all 4 bombers, or just the first one it intercepts? And SAM's only protect the city tile right? But the AI rarely bombs cities (maybe if it had precision bombing, but I have never got that far). Perhaps another function would be better, such as extending AS by 1 or 2 tiles. As it is I only build SAM's for SDI (again, if I ever get that far, usually when I choose to keep playing for the fun of it).

1) Correct, and for that reason I increased fighter defense strengths. Equal to attack for F-15, 1 less than attack for others.

2) 1 unit on intercept can intercept only 1 bombing mission. That is what allows "offensive" air superiority (bombing) missions to work.

3) SAM's: Duh, I think so.
While the AI generally bombs improvements, if they are doing well enough they will eventually get around to concentrating on the city. Of course, if they get to that point with YOU, you are definitely in a BAD way.

EDIT: Oops! Cross-post.

	10-12-2002 20:22									#38
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quote: Originally posted by TommyGunn Why can't I bomb from a carrier? I click on the bomber, but it won't give me bombard options?

1. Does bomber have movement left?
2. Does 'B' shortcut key work?
3. Have you edited bomber unit to remove bombard function?
4. Is bomber within range of any target?
5. Have you moved the carrier and not awakened the bomber?

== PF

	10-12-2002 20:48									#39
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quote: Originally posted by PrinceBimz I also like to use carrier fighters for recon missions. ... At least I know the sea that I plan to send my loaded transports through is clear of enemy warships.

Moral: use SS and SSN's when playing you. ;-)

{unless you have edited 'see invisible' for fighters}

== PF

	10-12-2002 22:26									#40
	Remove this text

1: yes
2:No
3:no
4:yes
5:? Uh, maybe that's what I'm missing. Maybe I'm just didn't see that option.

	12-12-2002 08:49									#41
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall Moral: use SS and SSN's when playing you. ;-) {unless you have edited 'see invisible' for fighters} == PF

LOL...well you won't have too. The AI has already been able to get away with this on me a good bit. I have many of times where I lost loaded transports and even loaded carriers to those freaking subs. I would pratically swear the sea would be clear and here comes a sub out of nowhere firing on my loaded transport. Obviously I have not edited it, hmmm maybe I will. True though those fighter recons can't see the subs. So still good to have at least one escort but sometimes I can't wait for one to be built.

	13-12-2002 20:57									#42
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Prinz,

I didn't add "see invisible" to fighters, but did for bombers as dad used to fly submarine patrols. Almost bombed a whale before realizing it wasn't a U-boat.

A nice RFE would be if Firaxis had a "Chance of Seeing Invisible" flag, much like the "chance of intercept" flag for fighters. It would make more sense to have bombers able to see 1/2 of SSN's. Oh, to have bombers see subs, you need to enable recon abilities.

Fighters don't have enough range to give early sub warning. By the time they discover them, it's torpedo at 4 o'clock. Bombers allow enough early warning that can 1) evade, 2) bomb, 3) move ships to intercept, or 4) increase ship stack on transports/carriers.

== PF

	14-12-2002 01:36									#43
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall A nice RFE would be if Firaxis had a "Chance of Seeing Invisible" flag, much like the "chance of intercept" flag for fighters. == PF

I like this idea.

	15-12-2002 01:39									#44
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hi ,

a carrier should hold at least 10-12 units , it should cost 3 times more and should have a defense to withstand at least three cruise rockets

its also great to make a second carrier type that is available to certain nations , .......

have a nice day