06-12-2002 04:25									#1
	[ooc] Roleplaying Problem Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ok, this is starting to become a problem and will only get worse if someone doesn't try to squash it now:

We need to create some form of rule against posters controlling each others' characters. The charachter Thug was created by mrmitchell and thus should have been controlled by mrmitchell, not by History Guy. I think it was funny just like everyone else, but allowing History Guy to pull the character he clearly stated in a previous thread was DEAD back into life and then CONTROLLING the character and what he said and did is a problem...

It wasn't History Guy's character.

The next thing to happen will be that mrmitchell is going to catch on to the idea and start controlling History Guy's characters... after a while no-one will be able to control anything of their characters anymore.

FURTHERMORE...

History Guy does NOT control the forces of nature, either! His attempts to do so are OBVIOUSLY part of a demonic pact by his character that the High Priest should have him tried for

FAR WORSE, History Guy, in attempting to control the forces of nature to conveniently remove a character that was NOT HIS, effectively has chosen to CHEAT THE WILL OF LORD TOGAS in addition to controlling the fate of OTHER posters' characters.

IN ADDITION, History Guy has cheated THE ENTIRE TRIBE of the festival of watching the slave Thug be tossed over the waterfall each day.

Now, aside from the whole demonic pact (charge 1) and using a demonic pact to cheat the will of Lord Togas (charge 2), History Guy DID act in what he obviously believed were the rules operating over role-play (that he could kill anyone's character he wanted whenever he wanted however he wanted).

HERE IS THE CHANGE I PROPOSE:

- ONLY the poster which introduced and controls a character may speak for him, control his actions, and choose his fate aside from those powers given to Lord Togas and those he delegates those powers to (such as the High Priest, the Watcher, etc.).

It's a simple rule and will make roleplay a lot easier for those of us who don't feel like competing in the following manner:

A: "Your character just defected to me! "
B: "Oh yeah? Your character is now dying of the plague! "
A: "Oh yeah? Your other character just got hit by lightening! "
B: "Oh yeah? The character that defected to you just defected back, but he killed half your flock of cattle before doing so! "

etc, etc, etc.

	06-12-2002 04:33									#2
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100% agreeance from me

i was peeved at the post too... but History Guy has wondered before if I have something against him...
which i dont

we just dont always see eye to eye

	06-12-2002 04:36									#3
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I have a thought...

When it comes down to conflict between two charcters, where one must be harmed in some way or form... the great leader/king/president decides fates!

So, say Togas decided Thug and History Guy had to fight to the death

it is left up to Togas alone to decide who lives.

	06-12-2002 04:43									#4
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I may have started this by creating the Undercook, first part of the Calamari household, then part of Mitchell’s. Should we extend this to not creating characters from other people’s households?

	06-12-2002 04:46									#5
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We could always allow people to GIVE characters to each other (slaves are bought and sold, of course!). But otherwise, controlling a character should ideally be reserved for the poster which created him and has infused him with personality.

	06-12-2002 04:52									#6
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OK, I apologize. If you'd like me to leave, that's fine. I'll obliterate the post.

	06-12-2002 06:38									#7
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quote: ONLY the poster which introduced and controls a character may speak for him, control his actions, and choose his fate aside from those powers given to Lord Togas and those he delegates those powers to (such as the High Priest, the Watcher, etc.).

This makes it easier for everyone. I fully support this proposal.

But we can't make this retroactive. What's done is done. Please do not erase posts or change posts as people have often written posts in respose to these.

Furthermore, History Guy is not going anywhere. I most certainly do not want to see him leave. His posts have been very entertaining and up until now there has been no rule against what he was doing.

We need to play along with what has happened and FROM HERE ON OUT follow this simple rule.

Each person controls his own characters and his own characters only.

Except that the Despot and those who have been given specific authority may choose to detain, execute, etc your character.

If two characters fight, the Despot shall determine who died or shall devise a means to determine it.

--Togas

	06-12-2002 06:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Each person controls his own characters and his own characters only. Except that the Despot and those who have been given specific authority may choose to detain, execute, etc your character. If two characters fight, the Despot shall determine who died or shall devise a means to determine it. --Togas

I like!

	06-12-2002 11:38									#9
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I completely agree with this.

	06-12-2002 12:59									#10
	Re: [ooc] Roleplaying Problem Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos B: "Oh yeah? Your character is now dying of the plague! "

Hehe, this one I liked !

Ok, for the rest of it: I think Arnelos got a point here.
I will only create characters from within the Plagiãtes clan.
They might be sentenced to death by the community,
but only I will post their death.
(in case of some PM-ing, or they escape and goes into exile)

	06-12-2002 22:41									#11
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I basically agree. However, I sometimes "quote" some of our fellow Spaniards in the Stone of Spain, even though they have never said what I quoted. I try to be as loyal to their character as possible, and they may object if they want to. So, can I still do this?

	07-12-2002 04:15									#12
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Ninot-- Yeah...suuuuuuuure ya don't...

	07-12-2002 05:07									#13
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Ninot-- Yeah...suuuuuuuure ya don't...

RP:

It would be quite unfortunate if you, like your father, had to wander off, or disapear

	07-12-2002 06:13									#14
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Did I hear you say: "It would be quite unfortunate if you, like your father, had to wander off, or disapear"? YES! I did!

WHAT?! A threat!! A complaint will be lodged, sir! And this time, the law is on my side! Such threats are punishable by...I donno...but I'm sure they are punishable! You'll hear from my solicitors, sir!

Hernan de History Guy Calamari II
Squid Baron

	07-12-2002 06:14									#15
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Did I hear you say: "It would be quite unfortunate if you, like your father, had to wander off, or disapear"? YES! I did! WHAT?! A threat!! A complaint will be lodged, sir! And this time, the law is on my side! Such threats are punishable by...I donno...but I'm sure they are punishable! You'll hear from my solicitors, sir! Hernan de History Guy Calamari II Squid Baron

In this town of Madrid, I'm sure you'll find support

	07-12-2002 06:27									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot In this town of Madrid, I'm sure you'll find support

Perhaps also outside Madrid?
Dear señores, my familia grande streches it's roots overseas.
At the office of Don Plagiãtes, Sicilia, he might find suspicìoso supporto extravagante. if he pays well.
They can also "persuade" certain solicitors into certain doings.

Personally I would not be directly involved. Anyway, I possibly can't be. Since I'm off to an importante expiditiòne pretty soon.

	07-12-2002 06:30									#17
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I shall seek justice from the only law in this land...the Great Lord Togas, compared to whom we are all as flies!

	07-12-2002 07:55									#18
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It should be noted that in these ancient times there are no "civil rights" and very little Justice other than "an eye for an eye." Life and death has little meaning. No one has a right to anything, and the most powerful individuals make the rules and enforce them violently if necessary to maintain their control.

We should be warry as the only sorts of disputes that I'm likely to hear are between two equals who are of enough importance (like two wealthy merchant families) that I feel the matter needs to be resolved.

Disputes between a person of power and a "tribesman" are settled by the person with power, and there's rarely any appeals about the matter to anyone, especially since death cannot really be appealed.

I know the court cases can be a lot of fun and excitement, but we should be careful as future "problems" may not be resolved in such a mannor. A leader of the civ may just decide for execution to save time and trouble.

I'm a pretty generous leader right now. This could change if I ever have a Tyranical Son.

--Togas

	07-12-2002 08:38									#19
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quote: Life and death has little meaning.

So the possible investigation of Senor Pikesfans(?) death should be dropped.

However, Thug was property, and that was important!!!

	07-12-2002 08:45									#20
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell So the possible investigation of Senor Pikesfans(?) death should be dropped. However, Thug was property, and that was important!!!

Speaking entirely out of character here:

I felt that the Mitchell vs. History Guy dispute was bound to happen at some point, as the rival Calamari storylines were flaring up, and settling a dispute between these two important merchant families is something I felt the Despot would want to do.

Not all disputes will be taken up. In fact, I've instituted a new policy in the EDICTS thread.

As for Pikesfan, you should drop it. Already resolved with Mitchell paying the funeral costs and the cook taking a plunge down the waterfall.

--Togas

	07-12-2002 08:47									#21
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[OOC, I believe we are overlooking fact. Ancient Kings [b]did[/] care if they had a governor who was creating unrest and abusing his priveleges. Alexander the Great had many problems with such guys, and killed alot of them. If this is strict roleplay, we can either have 1) A completely corrupt government where there is no law, or 2) A more enlightened government, like that of Hammurabi or Alexander, which does indeed have a law and if you break that law you are punished. I prefer the latter.

If we follow the latter, we must actually create a system of laws. The Sumerians, the first civilization, always had a law code. If you commited murder, you were executed. If you threatened one's life, you pay the man money, or if you were an official under the king and abused your power, you paid alot or lost your position (if you weren't just killed).

Historically, leaders have always been mindful of the fact that a corrupt government which allows corruption in their ranks and it goes noticed by the public and creates unrest cannot stand. Machiavelli tells us this, and it has always been thus, as he notes. [/OOC]

	07-12-2002 08:53									#22
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O Señor Calamari,

I thank you for your concern for my uncle’s death, but I have already caught the badsquid and given him to the Wise and Just Despot, who will have the badsquid thrown off the waterfall. Please, you need not bother yourself about the matter any longer. My family will always gratefully welcome you if you or yours should ever decide to visit our valley in Los Piraneos.

Jordí Pikesfan

	07-12-2002 08:56									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Togas As for Pikesfan, you should drop it. --Togas

unwritten subtext

... or I shall drop you and next time it won't be off a soft landing waterfall ahahaha!

	07-12-2002 09:00									#24
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy [OOC, I believe we are overlooking fact. Ancient Kings [b]did[/] care if they had a governor who was creating unrest and abusing his priveleges. Alexander the Great had many problems with such guys, and killed alot of them. If this is strict roleplay, we can either have 1) A completely corrupt government where there is no law, or 2) A more enlightened government, like that of Hammurabi or Alexander, which does indeed have a law and if you break that law you are punished. I prefer the latter. If we follow the latter, we must actually create a system of laws. [/OOC]

[OOC] We haven’t invented Code of Law yet. That could be the roleplay. The Despot right before Code of Law could be so corrupt that his son is ashamed, or at least gets so sick of the work he had to do restoring order that he sets his wise men to invent something to stop this, so they invent Code of Law. [/OOC]

	07-12-2002 09:03									#25
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True, but even the earliest cultures had a standard law code. The Sumerians had one since pre-4000BC, and there's evidence that other cultures had such before then.

	07-12-2002 09:31									#26
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ooc:

If we are to use polls on amending these laws in the future,
we don't have to wait until researching (modern) democracy to make some roleplay of that.

We could actually begin that during the ancient era.
Just as the Greeks did in their days of philosophy.
Then we can arrange mass meetings, (a polling thread)
and the despot becomes a demagog or something?

	07-12-2002 09:40									#27
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OOC:
Threats upon a life are not abuse of power

and publically, before i threatened you, i never abused my powers once.

I dont really think that there was any abuse of powers. It was nice to use as a rallying point, but a commoner can threaten just as well as a Governor. Nothing special involved.

Now the wonderful way Togas backed me up... that was just a beautifully elegant use of his supreme power, to back up my less-then supreme power.

	07-12-2002 09:47									#28
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat ooc: We could actually begin that during the ancient era. Just as the Greeks did in their days of philosophy.

OOC
Well, no. We will 1. have to wait for philosophy to do this, and 2. it still could not be a poll during the age of Despotism. Instead, once we invent philosophy, some of us could be philosophers and have philosophical discussions about what would happen if we changed the laws. If the Despot, or the City Governor is enlightened, he will listen to us, but if the he is not enlightened, he will invite us to drink squid ink.

Polls have to wait for Monarchy, where the city governors could poll among themselves, or for Republic, where we all as heads of families get to vote.

	07-12-2002 10:02									#29
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To wait until philosophy is allright. That's what I meant too.


But one thing is clear from ancient history:
One does not need the republic to arrange mass polls.
Anyway, that was just the case with the Romans .

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 08-12-2002 at 04:00

	07-12-2002 10:18									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot I dont really think that there was any abuse of powers. It was nice to use as a rallying point, but a commoner can threaten just as well as a Governor. Nothing special involved.

ooc:

As you say, some of the members of my clan, the Plagiãtes,
even takes steps to pose a threat to the dicator himself.
As when they publically requested mercenaries from the GoW.
Its a cool way of roleplaying life in a totalitatian regime,
while confusing everyone outside.


My current character Pedro does not theat anyone.
He is an explorer and dedicated to service for the Spain,
but his family is kinda "mafioso" though.


To emphasize, Pedro is always loyal to his family and clan.
Moreover, he do respect the power of the dictator so that he can do what he likes to do... Go out and explore!