19-06-2000 11:55									#1
	*sigh* stuck between Miriam, Yang and an irrate Diedre Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What is classified as a bad start? I don't mean just finding yourself starting in place with no resources, I mean finding yourself in a really bad position like:

I decided to try Morgan out last night. EVERY single time I started in a relatively low resource spot making expansion hard and every single time ( about five tries) Santiago showed up with rovers before 2125. The final time I was tired of this sh*t so I refused her demands. WHAM! SMACK! CRUNCH! She put her jack booted foot in my ass! Now, I could say that Morgan sucks because he's defenseless in the early game, but I'll asmit it might be my lousing playing. Still, I think that a setup like that was a setup for decimation.

So I tried the Peacekeepers this morning. Things were going ok...I wasn't setting the world on fire, but I was expanding fairly quickly and on the verge of building the Empath Guild. Sudden;y I' greeted by THREE other factions that effectively have me surrounded. Miriam to my north demanding laser tech (I'll let that pass for now, but you may regret your arrogance"=I'm going to attack you really soon!), Diedre to my south with unsurpassed might...and plopping down bases to limit my access to the monsoon jungle ("You're in Gaian territory! Withdraw immediately!"=This planet ain't big enough for both of us and since I'm stronger right now I'm going to mindworm you to death)and Yang to my East (I won't tolerate collaboration with my hated enemy Diedre/ Miriam!"= I hate all of you and resistance is futile) Keep in mind Yang is the anti-Lal so I KNOW he's coming after me. Theres no room left to expand, judging by the terrain relief (even the blacked out parts) Yang has plenty of room so its a good bet he's got a half million cities by now. I could possibly defend against and defeat any one of them at a time, but its obvious that I'm not getting that luxury. Geez...I hate to be a quitter, but it looks bad. What do you think?

D4

	19-06-2000 12:11									#2
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Change your SE to Fundy/Green if you haven't already done so. Make nice with all your neighbors. Strive for pacts with Miriam and Deirdre. Try to get them both to join you in a Hive stomp-a-thon.

Zak anywhere around? Or Morgan?

	19-06-2000 14:31									#3
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1. Start playing Miriam, Yang, or Zak, Santiago.
2. Ask Vel to give you some hints.
3. If you start with no sufficient (vital) space to expand, while the others (and especially the aggresive factions) have that necessary critical room then the game is (almost) lost.
4. Do what Mongoose says...

	19-06-2000 15:17									#4
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This would not work against humans, but vs. the AI, build a total of 8 rovers (I have no idea what your present tech level is, but I"m guessing it's still pretty early in the game....also, you'll need at least 4-5 bases to do this, so it may or may not be workable).

If you don't have the tech yet, beeline for Impact, and design your attack rovers around them.

Post 2 Rovers each off of Miriam and Dee's border, inside your closest base to each of their territory markers (this is mostly as an insurance policy).

Post four Rovers off of Yang's borders and set all your bases to making probe teams (You'll need them in the fight with Yang, cos without them, his perim. defenses will eat your lunch).

No mistake about it....it'll be slow going, and you won't even capture terribly many bases unless you lurk around and wait for them to grow to size three. Sadly, this means what you'll wind up with is an enslaved Yang and a lot of wide open territory between you and he, so once you start taking his bases out, you might want to set one of your bases (preferably with a Nutrient special in radius) to the exclusive production of colony pods to grow as you conquer him....

Also, if you can, send me the save...I'd like to see that one too...

-=Vel=-

	20-06-2000 09:52									#5
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Good choice Mongoose. I love Fundy\Green, and I think that it would work very well in that circumstance.

	20-06-2000 10:51									#6
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I'd say maybe Morgan starts out weak because he is so strong economically. I know that doesn't really have to do with anything though.

	20-06-2000 17:08									#7
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And in addition to the posts above remember this, there is no such thing as an unwinnable starting position. Several people here have won the game by transcendance (on the transcend level) with only a single base the entire game, and without building a single military unit. So, anything that gives you more resources than that set-up is just gravy.

If you find yourself in a situation where your military cannot save you, then start playing the metagame. Use the SE table and diplomacy to your advantage. Use probes teams mercilessly (frame other factions!!).

Finally a word about defense and terrain. I will use a volleyball example here: high-level vball teams do not put three blockers at the net with the aim of stopping the ball from coming across the net. There are simply too many advantages the offensive team has for that kind of strategy to work even a small percentage of the time. The purpose of the blockers is to limit the options of the offense; to channel the attack to the point where the defensive side is strongest - to the places where the passers are best set up to dig the ball. Use the same principle in SMAC. Put up a hard defender and an artillery unit on high rocky ground. Channel the attackers where you want them and can best harass them. Learn how to make use of ZOCs (Zones of Control).

And if all else fails... go with the equalizer... X-Impact Rovers (or your best weapon, whatever it is).

	20-06-2000 17:29									#8
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D4,

Try looking at Morgan in a slightly different light. He is hamstrung by his support. In the beginning game his biggest asset comes as soon as he can get Probe teams. Not even necessarily from his ability to subvert incoming would be attackers although that is mightily powerful in of itself but moreso from his ability to from the get go make infantry synthemetal PT's. Since he starts with synth tech you don't even need to worry about prototyping.

As soon as you make the switch to FM any utility you get from conventional garrisons goes completely out the window. You've just tied up a valuable mineral in support and for all intents and purposes have no real use for the unit. An armored infantry PT OTOH allows you the ability to counterattack through subversion and give you needed base defense all with no mineral support issue, thereby allowing you to build those more important formers.

Energy is Morgans greatest weapon allowing spot upgrades of formers to synth as needed as well as facility builds.

Next highlights for Morgan security come in the form of Secrets of the Human Brain for trance upgrade as well as High Energy Chemistry for plasma armor. Once you have these under your belt the infantry PTs should be upgraded to this configuration thereby allowing you to stave off most any would be attacker.

Of course all this being said you still need to make the judicious decision as to whether you rush up the builder tech beeline through Ind AUto and restriction lifting or Green techline or DAP tech line. My pref for Morgan usually if allowed is builder tech line then DAP then back to green tech line.