10-12-2002 07:05									#151
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quote: Again... please explain how a playoff system of 8 teams takes ANYTHING away from the regular season.

Letting a team with two losses into a playoff obviously makes the regular season less important. How can you argue otherwise?

quote: But you claim that if Bowling Green had gone undefeated they didn't deserve a chance because they didn't play a hard enough schedule. Well guess what... MANY teams played a harder schedule than OSU did... You seem pretty willing to dismiss another teams perfect schedule because YOU think they aren't that good, but come on... they did EVERYTHING THAT WAS ASKED OF THEM...

I've said before that there must be some sort of threshhold for strength of schedule. I believe I suggested above 50th in the nation. Just because you don't remember my arguments doesn't mean that I'm talking in circles.

quote: I love how these FEW supporters of this crappy system keep talking in circles tryig to defend a system that sucks...

At least I'm still defending my arguments. You haven't said anything outside of "blah blah old men blah blah greed blah blah majority" in a long time.

A bunch of smilies in a row does not an argument make.

	10-12-2002 07:16									#152
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Again... a playoff system for 8 teams doesn't do ANYTHING to invalidated the regular season. You seem to think that Conference Championships are totally meaningless, and that a playoff system only two more rounds than the current system changes everything. It doesn't. There were tons of Conference Championships this year where the teams involved had no hope for a chance at the championship. Those games... and the fans at those games... and the tv ratings... sure as hell didn't look meaningless to me. It is only YOUR opinion, and frankly, that's all you have been offering up... rehash after rehash of ONLY YOUR opinion.

You again claim that bowling green's strength of schedule invalidates a perfect seaon... Yet over 20 % of teams in 1 - A played a harder strength of schedule then Miami had... What's the cut off... some magical number that you pull out of thin air?

You say you are defending your arguments... but with nothing more than just your opinion... and your opinion is just plain wrong... as almost everybody that has voted in the polls has proved. It's you and just a few others who continue to hold on to nothing

	10-12-2002 07:33									#153
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quote: It is only YOUR opinion, and frankly, that's all you have been offering up... rehash after rehash of ONLY YOUR opinion.

Whose opinion were you expecting me to give?

quote: Yet over 20 % of teams in 1 - A played a harder strength of schedule then Miami had...

Actually, 19th out of 117 is less than 20%.

quote: You say you are defending your arguments... but with nothing more than just your opinion... and your opinion is just plain wrong... as almost everybody that has voted in the polls has proved.

What does the fact that the majority of people who voted on the BCS poll have a different opinion than me prove? We're all going on opinion here Ming, and my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. Quit reaching for straws.

	10-12-2002 07:44									#154
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And that's how funky the numbers are that you are basing your opinion your on... Last week, Miami's strength of schedule was ranked 30th (I hadn't seen the new numbers yet, so sue me) Now it's shifts to to 19th after a single game. Just further reasons why the number is by no means an exact science...

But again... you never explain how the regular season becomes meaningless. Under the current system, which is a playoff system, teams not involved in the championship anymore were playing in Conference Championship Games. The fans and tv audiences seem to think they were still meaningful. The Big 12 Championship game was a fan favorite, the place was going nuts... and you say that it is meaningless? What's the difference between 8 teams or 2 on the regular season... NONE... The regular season will still stay JUST as meaningful has it is today.

And the difference is... under a playoff system, the regular season will be meaningful for ALL teams in division 1 - A, not just the teams you have annointed as worthy...

	10-12-2002 07:50									#155
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And thanks for making me look up the current stregth of schedule numbers. Georgia played the 5th toughest and only had one loss. Maybe if Miami and OSU had played a schedule as tough as theirs, they would have lost a game too

	10-12-2002 07:53									#156
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quote: And that's how funky the numbers are that you are basing your opinion your on... Last week, Miami's strength of schedule was ranked 30th (I hadn't seen the new numbers yet, so sue me) Now it's shifts to to 19th after a single game.

Did you think playing the #14 team in the country wasn't going to boost Miami's strength of schedule?

quote: But again... you never explain how the regular season becomes meaningless.

Why do you keep using the word "meaningless"? I stopped using that word a long time ago because it doesn't accurately reflect the situation. I apologized for using it, because it was misleading. So why do you insist on putting that word in my mouth?

The regular season won't be "meaningless", but it will have a greatly lessened importance. Teams won't have to go undefeated anymore to guarantee a title shot; they'll be able to lose one, two, or sometimes three games and still have a shot. Takes a lot of the tension out of the regular season, don't you think?

quote: And the difference is... under a playoff system, the regular season will be meaningful for ALL teams in division 1 - A, not just the teams you have annointed as worthy...

To the best of my knowledge, any team in D-I can make the title game if they rank #1 or #2 in the final BCS rankings. Therefore, every team in the country has a shot at the title.

BCS games are different; if you aren't in a major conference or Notre Dame, you probably aren't going to get a chance at a BCS bowl, even if your ranking shows you deserve it. This is bullshit and I support changing it. You don't need a playoff to address this problem, however.

	10-12-2002 08:00									#157
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USC was #1 in SOS; maybe if they played as tough as schedule as them, they'd have two losses... maybe even three!

Seeding in my 12-team playoff
#1 Miami (bye, vs. 8-9)
#2 Ohio State (bye, vs. 7-10)
#3 Georgia (bye, vs. 6-11)
#4 Washington State (bye, vs. 5-12)
#5 Oklahoma vs. #12 North Texas
#6 Notre Dame vs. #11 Texas Christian
#7 Florida State vs. #10 Marshall
#8 Boise State vs. #9 Colorado State

Seeding in a 16-team playoff, with 5 additional wild-cards picked according to the same criteria used for the 12-team version
#1 Miami vs. #16 North Texas
#2 Ohio State vs. #15 Texas Christian
#3 Iowa vs. #14 Arkansas
#4 Georgia vs. #13 Marshall
#5 Southern California vs. #12 Colorado State
#6 Washington State vs. #11 Virginia Tech
#7 Oklahoma vs. #10 Boise State
#8 Notre Dame vs. #9 Florida State

Michigan and Texas lost tiebreakers to VTU & Arkansas for the last two wildcard slots. Marshall & Arkansas actually tied for seeding; Marshall was ranked higher due to their conference championship.


So, which one should I do?

	10-12-2002 08:36									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten but it will have a greatly lessened importance. Teams won't have to go undefeated anymore to guarantee a title shot

And again, how will an 8 game playoff system lessen the importance of the Big !2 Championship Game... or other games. It won't.

And as it is right now, you don't have to go undefeated to get a shot at the title, and under the current system, you can go undefeated and NOT get a shot at it... Those are pure facts and not opinion And the fact that an undefeated team can get NO shot at a championship is just wrong... using your own criteria that they deserve a shot at it

It was pure luck that there are only two undefeated teams left this year, there could have been 3 or 4... The BCS can't handle that one.

	10-12-2002 08:40									#159
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quote: It was pure luck that there are only two undefeated teams left this year, there could have been 3 or 4... The BCS can't handle that one.

I'll believe it when I see it. Besides, you don't need a playoff to fix this problem. An extra game after the the bowls, if necessary, would fix this (as I've said many times).

BTW, are you watching my Dolphins kick the crap out of your Bears? Do you think it's a sign about which one of us is right and which one of us is wrong?

	10-12-2002 08:54									#160
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No... it's just a sign that the Bears Suck this year... Like I've mentioned many times so far

	10-12-2002 08:57									#161
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[jack]Go Dolphins! [/jack]

Frankly, the BCS worked this year. #1 is playing #2, and you can't say that someone else deserves to be in that game.

However... in years that there is no clear-cut 1 and 2 teams, I support a small playoff. In this year, a playoff would be gilding the lily.

	10-12-2002 14:09									#162
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quote: Frankly, the BCS worked this year. #1 is playing #2, and you can't say that someone else deserves to be in that game.

I can and I will. Georgia was #5 in SOS, Miami was 19th. USC was 1 in SOS. If Miami played Georgia's or USC's schedule maybe they would have had a loss.

--

Guy... go for the 12 team playoff. Give the top 4 a bye (not that it matters in a video game).

	10-12-2002 16:31									#163
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Guy: Do the 16-team playoff. It's an egregious sin for USC to get excluded.

	10-12-2002 19:29									#164
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I so wanted to post at halftime of last night's game. "Our punter is looking good".

	10-12-2002 21:51									#165
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AAGH!!! I can't believe I missed this thread at the begining, that'll teach me to do homework on the weekends

	11-12-2002 01:36									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Maybe if Miami and OSU had played a schedule as tough as theirs, they would have lost a game too

maybe if the Big Ten refs hadn't gifted that overtime victory to OSU Illinois would be in a bowl and OSU would ranked lower

	11-12-2002 02:03									#167
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What do you all think?



Report: Rose, Selig Discuss Reinstatement
19 minutes ago



MILWAUKEE (Reuters) - Pete Rose met baseball commissioner Bud Selig two weeks ago to discuss his possible reinstatement to the game, ESPN's Web site reported Tuesday.



The issue of whether Rose will be reinstated or regain eligibility for Hall of Fame induction had not been determined, sources close to the situation told ESPN.com.


The meeting came 13 years after Rose, then manager of the Cincinnati Reds (news), agreed to a lifetime ban from baseball following an investigation into his gambling.


"There have been a number of stories reporting alleged conversations or meetings between commissioner Selig and Pete Rose," Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer, said in a statement Tuesday.


"Pete Rose applied for reinstatement to commissioner Selig several years ago and that application has been pending since that time. Given the pendency of the application for reinstatement, neither the commissioner or anyone in our office will comment on the Pete Rose matter further."


Rose, baseball's career hits leader and a lock for the Hall of Fame had he not been banned from baseball, applied for reinstatement in 1997.


However, Selig refused to rule on the matter, saying he had not seen any evidence that would make him alter the lifetime ban.


Selig is expected to insist that Rose admits he bet on baseball -- something he has never done -- before he would be reinstated.

	11-12-2002 02:14									#168
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keep the lifetime ban. Rose may have been great, but they had to make an example of him

	11-12-2002 02:32									#169
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I don't have a problem with him betting on baseball in general, but betting on a game he was in would be quite a stretch.

	11-12-2002 03:07									#170
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The problem as I see it was he was supposedly gambling when a manager.

He should be recognized as a player for his accomplishments. He never bet on baseball as a player AFAIK. Aftrer induction as a player he should then be summarily banned again for his betting whilst a manager.

	11-12-2002 03:28									#171
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That makes no sense, if I understand you.
Ban, unban, then ban again ? Is that what you're saying?
And what difference does his position make, as far as making bets ?
I'm just trying to understand. In this you're saying ok to bet as player, not as manager?

	11-12-2002 03:30									#172
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He should be in the Hall of Fame. The HoF is about baseball ACHIEVEMENT! It isn't about who is a nice guy. Hell, TY COBB is in there!

Get him in the HoF, but prevent him from getting a job in baseball.

	11-12-2002 03:36									#173
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I still don't understand, Imran.
In football, Kramer and Hornung of the Packers got a season's ban. I think it was a season. Certainly not more.
Why have Rose drawn and quartered?

	11-12-2002 03:40									#174
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Well because he gambled on games while manager. I don't think I'd trust someone like that to run my team.

	11-12-2002 03:42									#175
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But what does it matter? If he's not betting on his own team's game?

	11-12-2002 03:44									#176
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Um... he was Slow. He was betting on the Reds while managing them.

	11-12-2002 03:48									#177
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OK. I never saw that he had been known to do that.
If that's so, then yeah, that would be about stupid.

	11-12-2002 03:55									#178
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As long as he wasn't betting on his team to lose, than frankly, I don't give a damn. Point shaving and throwing/fixing games is one thing, betting on yourself to win is something entirely different.

	11-12-2002 04:00									#179
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But we don't know who he was betting on, you know?

	11-12-2002 04:02									#180
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I went with the 16-team playoff, mostly because of the Iowa situation... screw USC, they had their chance against Wazzou (and they are in anyway).

And the first result...

At the Holiday Bowl, things started well for the North Texas Eagles, holding Miami to a three-and-out on the Hurricanes' first possession. It was all downhill from there, however:

#1 Miami 92
#16 North Texas 3

Little known fact: apparently, the Eagles' uniforms sport an uncanny replica of a cleat-mark on the chest.

North Texas' coach, UNT COACH, was asked how he felt after Miami scored their 66th point early in the third quarter: "First, I cried. Then I threw up."

North Texas quarterback QB #10 pulled a Ty Detmer and tossed seven picks, three of which were returned for scores, including a 95-yarder with the Eagles threatening, only down 14-0 at the time. Said QB #10: "Ooops."