06-12-2002 05:41									#1
	Why did I lose? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hi all. I have attached a save of my latest game, one turn before it is announced that I have suffered a humiliating defeat. The problem is I don't know what kind of defeat? UN election? Culture? Domination?

If anyone can help, I would appreciate it.

Attachment: civilization iii autosave 1954 ad.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	06-12-2002 06:39									#2
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Plant a spy in America (it will succeed if that's what you do first from that save). Then check the spacerace...

	06-12-2002 09:23									#3
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Aaaahhhh! I will try that. Thank you.

I have been trying all kinds of things to find out what happened.

	06-12-2002 09:51									#4
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley Aaaahhhh! I will try that. Thank you. I have been trying all kinds of things to find out what happened.

It's always a good idea to plant spies for just this reason. Even if you don't use any other espionage function, it does give you the space race.

ACK!

	06-12-2002 12:45									#5
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Well, thanks, I reloaded, planted the spy and that explains it. I was unable to successfully plant a spy prior to that turn. I knew they were way ahead of me, but I had no idea they were building the space ship. I would have launched an invasion against them otherwise. Oh well.

Definitely not my best game. I was pretty sure I had lost from about the late middle ages, but I kept hoping I could turn it to my favor.

Thanks again.

	07-12-2002 01:17									#6
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After thinking about this, I have decided this is a little stupid. Fine, I was beaten, but the program should have told me how I was beaten when it flashes the defeat screen regardless of whether or not I have a spy in the winning AI's capitol.

	07-12-2002 07:38									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski It's always a good idea to plant spies for just this reason. Even if you don't use any other espionage function, it does give you the space race. ACK!

I once suddenly was defeated by China owing to its launching first the space ship.

I tried FOUR FREAKING TIMES during different turns to plant a spy in Beijing, at great cost, and every one of them was caught. All they did was cause a war.

Espionage is a waste. Even after editing down the costs.

	07-12-2002 08:50									#8
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quote: After thinking about this, I have decided this is a little stupid. Fine, I was beaten, but the program should have told me how I was beaten when it flashes the defeat screen regardless of whether or not I have a spy in the winning AI's capitol.

I agree. Do any of the other victory conditions show who won either?

	07-12-2002 09:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Espionage is a waste. Even after editing down the costs.

I personally find it invaluable to know how many of what type of unit the enemy has. HOw else to time your attack perfectly? the more information, the better IMHO

	07-12-2002 10:39									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle I tried FOUR FREAKING TIMES during different turns to plant a spy in Beijing, at great cost, and every one of them was caught. All they did was cause a war.

Uh, didn't I hear that after a failed espionage attempt you will automatically fail for the next 1-4 turns or so?

	07-12-2002 13:21									#11
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Yes in PTW that is true, not sure about Civ3.

	08-12-2002 02:00									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson quote: After thinking about this, I have decided this is a little stupid. Fine, I was beaten, but the program should have told me how I was beaten when it flashes the defeat screen regardless of whether or not I have a spy in the winning AI's capitol. I agree. Do any of the other victory conditions show who won either?

It does for some of the victory conditions. For one of the obvious ones it announced, "You have suffered a humilating conquest loss", or something along those lines. I am not sure about the others, because I usually play against Regent and I dominate at that level. Recently I have been playing against Monarch and I have been struggling. I have been losing quite often, usually to conquest early. So I will have to wait and see if it announces culture or domination victories with or without spies.