14-03-2003 00:38									#91
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Cedayon, do you already have a better idea what magtube network you have in mind for Jedinica? I'm curious.

I'll post my plan for Akiria (as replacing governor) here as well.

Edit: Here it is:

Last edited by Maniac on 14-03-2003 at 00:52

	14-03-2003 05:21									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Cedayon, do you already have a better idea what magtube network you have in mind for Jedinica? I'm curious.

It wouldn't be significantly different, just a bit straighter ... I'll post it today or tomorrow though.

Thanks for the plans for Akiria's tube net

Voltaire, Archaic, Lucky: do you wish to submit mag tube plans for your own regions, or should I just draw up some reasonable ones for your approval?

Note: this isn't likely to chew up an enormous local former commitment, since by it's nature this project allows incredibly efficient use of formers and the former groups tend to keep going for quite some time.

	14-03-2003 05:39									#93
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A messenger arrived in the afternoon carrying an encrypted message from our Holy Emperor. The decoder has just finished it's job. Apparently TKG's creations are playing target practice with Yang's outdated missile troops while he concocts evil plans. The message is as follows:

quote: my lord DIA, as part of my constant struggle to improve the mineral productions in all my bases, i have formulated an evil scheme to do just that, but does not involve unethical facilities. yes, that's right, i plan to raise parts of the freshwater sea and Sea of >long M-word< first of all, UNPD and ZG: step 1: raise the tile the borehole is on. this raises all adjacent tiles, marked in green. those can be forested. step 2: raise the tiles in yellow (now land). this makes all the tiles inside the blue area land. this allows me to put boreholes E of ZG and SE SE of UNPD, all the while increasing mineral output because of the forests i'd be creating. then, down south in Xanadu. same deal: raise the red tile. this makes the green tiles land step 2: raise the yellow tile. you get it. more boreholes and forest as you can see, this leaves all 3 bases still with water access should they need to build ships or whathaveyou. also note that no boreholes will be destroyed as a result of raising land. all the plan needs is your approval, unless you think something this big needs more discussion or a poll -=End Transmission=-

This is, afaik, my decision, and I intend to grant the request (provided his formers get started on the mag tube network too). I just wanted to give you all a heads-up and ask if anyone has any problems with this. To my knowledge no squares outside Aurillion territory will be affected (UNMI is in Aurillion, right?).

	14-03-2003 10:53									#94
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Just a word of warning: doing this may well have effects well beyond the borders of Aurillion, because it will probably interfere with rainfall patterns, though admittedly we don't really depend on rainfall for food any more...

	14-03-2003 17:05									#95
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Destroying the valuable Freshwater sea?? If this would ever come to a poll; I would certainly vote against it.

	14-03-2003 17:07									#96
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Now that you mention it,s ome figures on how much production we would lose and how much we'd gain would be nice. We'd be throwing away a not insignificant amount of food and energy if we went ahead, from what I can see.

	14-03-2003 17:12									#97
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4-0-4 against 3-2-3 I guess. It's mostly for esthetic reasons I'd vote against though.
(and former time we could spend on something else like building an energy park or planting forests elsewhere where we don't need to raise several tiles)

	14-03-2003 19:59									#98
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10 FWS tiles would be changed to land, 3 boreholes could probably be fit onto the new land, the rest could be forested, so:

As is, if all were kelp+harness (not quite the way it is) :
10 * 4-0-4 = 40-0-40 = 80 factors of production

With TKG's plan:
3 * 0-6-7 = 0-18-21 = 39 fops
7 * 3-2-3 = 21-14-21 = 56 fops
total 21-32-42 = 95 factors of production, notably 32 more minerals, and 19 less nuts (and 2 more energy).

estimated former time... well, a lot ... but TKG's formers are essentially his to do with as he pleases, unless there's an emergency or he's drilling a borehole.

Worry not about the energy park, Maniac, I'll be sending most of the JV formers north for that very purpose once the JV mag tube network section is finished and we have some units up there to protect the formers from aggression.

	15-03-2003 09:52									#99
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FYI: upon further consideration I've decided to delay TKG's land-raising plan until it can be properly discussed/polled... it's pretty drastic. I regret having to impede the plans of an industrious governor, but it probably wouldn't be very cool if a good chunk of the FWS were to just disappear because TKG and I agree that it would be best in the long run

Feel free to discuss the matter here, I'll start a poll if/when it seems the time is right.

	16-03-2003 09:30									#100
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Well, that was a very productive turnchat.

Magtube network's up

We're also positively rolling in cash, 6499 energy credits of it to be precise (and that's with me readily granting on-the-spot requests and actively suggesting some). Accordingly I decided to take a look at the save and come up with a preliminary plan to spend some of it:

(base-by-base follows, ranges indicate no overrun to 10 min overrun)

New Apolyton: will complete current thing in 1 turn.
New Suez: rush hybrid forest (saving 2 turns) for 172-192ecs
New Tassagrad: rush empath fusion speeder (saving 1 turn) for 44ish ecs (dunno exact)
Pandemonium: rush chopper (saving 1 turn) for 70ish ecs
Shangri-La: current thing under 10 mins
Sheathed Sword: rush empath chaos rover (saving 2 turns) for 200ish ecs
Tacticus Academy: currently on stockpile energy
Terminal Dogma: rush chopper (saving 1 turn) for 70ish ecs
TBIBTU: rush Aerospace complex (saving 1 turn) for 70ecs
Transcendance Academy: current thing under 10 mins
Twin Peaks: rush Centauri Preserve (saving 1 turn) for 18-38ecs
UN Aquaxenobanana: rush aquaformers (saving 20 turns) for 172ish ecs
UNMI: current thing under 10 turns
UN Peace Anchorage: rush aquaformers (saving 11 turns) for 136ish ecs
UN Pizza Delivery: rush empath chaos rotor (saving 1 turn) for 25+ecs
UN Research Complex: rush energy bank (saving 4ish turns) for 110-130ecs
UN Slippery ground: thing already rushed
Valhalla: will finish current thing in 1 turn
Xanadu: will finish current thing in 1 turn
Zanarkand Gate: rush Centauri Preserve (saving 1 turn) for 36-56ecs
Ankh-Morpork: rush Tree Farm (saving 4 turns) for 112-132ecs
Antioch: currently on stockpile energy
Aurora: current thing under 10 mins
Capricorn: rush network node (saving 7 turns) for 104-124 ecs
Circular Quay: currently on stockpile energy
Concordia: rush sky hydroponics lab (saving 3ish turns) for 152-172ecs
Crystalis: rush tree farm (saving 6ish turns) for 158-178ecs
Cyclops: rush empath chaos rotor (saving 1 turn) for 16ish ecs
Deus Ex Machina: rush sky hydroponics lab (saving 1 turn) for 108-128ecs
Egregion: current thing below 10 mins, not planning on building anything here anyway
Espirito del Aqua: rush research hospital (saving 10ish turns) for 180-200ecs
Heaven's gate: will finish current thing in 1 turn
Metropolis: rush tree farm (saving 6 turns) for 184-204ecs
Mysidia: rush hybrid forest (saving 2 turns) for 112-132ecs

After this we would still have somewhere in the range of 3500-4200ecs (nearer to 4200, likely). Next turn we'll be able to build orbital power transmitters, and I'd be willing to authorize rushing those in every base willing to build one (that would have over 10 mins, which is likely with the above), until reserves drop to around 1500 or so (and even then, just being cautious). Energy satts are a very good investment up until we have 18 of them. I'd like to achieve 18 energy satts by the end of next turnchat, if you all wouldn't mind terribly

	16-03-2003 09:33									#101
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quote: I'd like to achieve 18 energy satts by the end of next turnchat, if you all wouldn't mind terribly

*DROOL* Yes, please!

	16-03-2003 12:50									#102
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How fast we get them depends on how many bases will be available... JV's still mostly finishing up military stuff, and Concordia's going to be focusing on the ToE. But I imagine that between Centralis and Aurillion (with help from JV a few turns in, if need be) we'll be able to get those satts up without much trouble, just a sizeable investment of cash.

	16-03-2003 12:54									#103
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Centralis has been building basically nothing but sats in NA, TA and Antioch for the last few turns, so there's no reason they can't keep going.

	16-03-2003 19:36									#104
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Cedayon, I've just posted the new nominations thread (a day late ). I was therefore wondering if you were planning to install new regions. Then people can nominate for them timely.

May I btw also propose a new 0-1-3*2 super clean "Terraformers" model? (unless you have already designed it, I haven't yet looked at the save)

	16-03-2003 21:55									#105
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GT: I'll authorize energy (and nut, although less enthusiastically) satt rushes in those bases quite readily, though Archaic is technically the one I should tell that ... and I'm thinking of inserting an energy satt after the current item (ie switching the current thing after we get adv. spaceflight and rushing) in all JV bases except Concordia, so that'll be 4 more complete in '79... and they could do another one after that if neccesary.

So that makes:
NA, TA, Antioch, Pandemonium, Terminal Dogma, Sheathed Sword, and Valhalla

With 2 more bases willing to devote '78 and '79 to satt production, we could have 18 energy satts by 2280

Maniac: right, I should have gotten on the new region thing earlier... and to the new terraformer model, I wasn't aware it was my call.

Everyone:

1) It's becoming clear that we need a new region for the sea bases in our faction, the following choices come to mind:
-make a region out of all non-FWS sea bases
-make a region out of all sea bases period
-no new region, just keep dividing up the sea bases between other regions

I'm leaning towards the second option. What do you all think? Perhaps more importantly, who of you are willing to govern such a region? I'm pretty sure Herc would be (for the upcoming term) were he around.

2) We can now build the Theory of Everything (ToE). I would very much like to build it in Concordia, so we'll have it in the same base as the Supercollider. Any objections or other suggestions? Or shall I just get down to polling it?

3) Our Holy Emperor would like to raise a bunch of land from the sea, as discussed above... is there going to be any more discussion on the matter, or should I start the polls?

	17-03-2003 00:58									#106
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quote: and I'm thinking of inserting an energy satt after the current item (ie switching the current thing after we get adv. spaceflight and rushing) in all JV bases except Concordia

As previous governor for JV I can't resist to make a suggestion. Valhalla is currently at size 11. Perhaps it would be better to construct a hab cmoplex first before anything else.

1) I'll leave the honour to someone else.
2) The sooner you poll it, the better.
3) Let's poll that too.

	17-03-2003 12:18									#107
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quote: 2) We can now build the Theory of Everything (ToE). I would very much like to build it in Concordia, so we'll have it in the same base as the Supercollider. Any objections or other suggestions? Or shall I just get down to polling it?

What's the problem with building it in the same base? The more centralization, the better, because we'll get more out of each unit of energy.

	17-03-2003 21:02									#108
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus What's the problem with building it in the same base? The more centralization, the better, because we'll get more out of each unit of energy.

My thoughts exactly. I just wanted to give people a chance to object in case I missed some reason we shouldn't build it there.

	18-03-2003 07:55									#109
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Btw, what do all of you think of declaring a semi-moratorium on land former construction? We have a total (land and sea) of 103 formers right now, and it's getting to the point where it's trying our excellent commisioner's sanity. If new bases need to build formers, so be it (although I'd say formers can just be reassigned from established regions), but otherwise I think we have enough.

I'd suggest putting the production into infrastructure, crawlers and satts, and maybe military units if they're needed (although, looking at the save, I'd say we're doing quite well, particularly on defense).

I'm just petitoning for GT's sanity here

	18-03-2003 11:32									#110
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Yes, please, stop with the formers!!! As our construction of the magtube network showed, we have more than enough to do as we like, and building more is just a waste.

	19-03-2003 01:13									#111
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Ship all the formers to the north and let them develop the northern part of the continent.

	19-03-2003 07:24									#112
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K, here's the list of first turn rushes I had in mind, this time sorted by region. Please, governors, let me know if any of these is not what you want, because if I'm not told otherwise I'm probably going to order these rushes.

Centralis
New Apolyton: will complete current thing in 1 turn.
Tacticus Academy: currently on stockpile energy
TBIBTU: rush Aerospace complex (saving 1 turn) for 70ecs
Antioch: currently on stockpile energy
Circular Quay: currently on stockpile energy
Egregion: current thing below 10 mins, not planning on building anything here anyway

Twin Sea
New Suez: rush hybrid forest (saving 2 turns) for 172-192ecs
Mysidia: rush hybrid forest (saving 2 turns) for 112-132ecs
Crystalis: rush tree farm (saving 6ish turns) for 158-178ecs
Transcendance Academy: current thing under 10 mins
UN Research Complex: rush energy bank (saving 4ish turns) for 110-130ecs
Heaven's gate: will finish current thing in 1 turn

Akiria
Aurora: current thing under 10 mins
New Tassagrad: rush empath fusion speeder (saving 1 turn) for 44ish ecs (dunno exact)
Twin Peaks: rush Centauri Preserve (saving 1 turn) for 18-38ecs
Cyclops: rush empath chaos rotor (saving 1 turn) for 16ish ecs
Espirito del Aqua: rush research hospital (saving 10ish turns) for 180-200ecs

Jedinica Vrijstaat
Concordia: rush Secret Crawler up to 10 mins over
Pandemonium: rush chopper (saving 1 turn) for 70ish ecs
Sheathed Sword: rush empath chaos rover (saving 2 turns) for 200ish ecs
Terminal Dogma: rush chopper (saving 1 turn) for 70ish ecs
Valhalla: will finish current thing in 1 turn

Solaris
Ankh-Morpork: rush Tree Farm (saving 4 turns) for 112-132ecs
Shangri-La: current thing under 10 mins
Metropolis: rush tree farm (saving 6 turns) for 184-204ecs
UN Aquaxenobanana: rush aquaformers (saving 20 turns) for 172ish ecs
UN Slippery ground: thing already rushed
Capricorn: rush network node (saving 7 turns) for 104-124 ecs

Aurillion
UN Pizza Delivery: rush empath chaos rotor (saving 1 turn) for 25+ecs
Deus Ex Machina: rush sky hydroponics lab (saving 1 turn) for 108-128ecs
Zanarkand Gate: rush Centauri Preserve (saving 1 turn) for 36-56ecs
Xanadu: will finish current thing in 1 turn
UNMI: current thing under 10 turns

No Region Yet
UN Peace Anchorage: rush aquaformers (saving 11 turns) for 136ish ecs

On another note, it seems time for a new region consisting of all our sea bases, is this agreed? If so I'll start a poll on what it should be named, and if necessary a poll on exactly which bases should be included.

Noises have been made about making a new region out of captured Hive bases... this is a good idea, imho, but I don't think now (when we only have 1 such base) is the time to form such a region.

Thoughts? Anyone?

	19-03-2003 07:34									#113
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Well, since I would like to be a Governor, but am a little worried at all the former orders I might need to give, you could create a loosely linked "region" of bases that don't fit in anywhere else, and all of these could be my responsibility. We could say that these bases are effectively under the control of the former (as I will be by then) DPO because of the need to have someone there who can control the population if they riot.

	19-03-2003 10:13									#114
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Btw, I've got an idea for a start on our energy park (the image should be attached at the bottom).

Legend:
White outline: the space between the borders of the Solaris bases and our territory line.
Blue lines: proposed mag tubes
Green lines: proposed normal roads
Yellow outline: Solar collectors
Magenta-pinkish outline: Echelon Mirrors

Note that the outermost "lines" of solar arrays are just sorta there to exploit otherwise unused echelon bonuses. Note also that the squares at "ends" of the two mag tube" prongs can be normal roads without problem. (edit: I didn't mean to have that southernmost square in the easternmost echelon line be part of the echelon line, since it wouldn't be near any of the collectors, and I'm leaving the nearby rocky square for the current mining operation underway)



This can be extended when our territory is extended by new bases (for those of you that don't know, echelon mirrors only help when inside your territory).

Attachment: epark2277-3.jpg
This has been downloaded 62 time(s).

	20-03-2003 01:34									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Cedayon Btw, I've got an idea for a start on our energy park

I like this layout, but are these really the optimum elevations for such an extensive commitment of time and space?

	20-03-2003 02:16									#116
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The elevations can be... modified ... but I was planning on waiting until the park was underway before getting to land raising... it is an important improvement to be made later, though, possibly along with some aquifer drilling (for river energy bonuses).

Besides, TKG will be DIA next term, and he knows all about terrain raising/lowering

	20-03-2003 06:07									#117
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Hmm, I've been thinking... the "one must poll SPs" thing is somewhat inconvienient, as it delays the construction of an SP that we get the ability to build in the middle of a turnchat... so perhaps we should start making those SP polls in anticipation of getting the proper tech?

The Cloning Vats and The Nano Factory are just around the corner...

	20-03-2003 11:27									#118
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Yes, I agree with that. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be allowed to poll things in advance.

	21-03-2003 02:00									#119
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I think polls in advance are a great idea. However let us not use mid-turnchat availability as an excuse to build before polling. The poll must come first, although I see no objection to it being in advance.

	21-03-2003 04:27									#120
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I'm glad you all agree on pre-polling SPs to save time... so, anyone got their eyes on the Vats or the NF (or another one)? I'm pretty sure the Pholus Mutagen is earmarked for Akiria (specifically Aurora), though it needs to be officially polled.