06-12-2002 13:00									#1
	I'm eating my words Full PM-box? Change here!

In another thread I said I would not buy PTW until it was part of a Civ 3 combination package. Well, I received a $10 coupon from Electronics Boutique and I decided to pick up a copy. Especially since there weren't any other games that I was currently interested in.

I haven't tried MP yet, but the SP experience is awesome. I loved Civ3, but PTW plays like the true heir to Civ2. It has the same feel, minus the movies, but with better features, such as culture, unit support, borders (my favorite) and the new ZOC rules. Plus the dreaded Vikings and Mongols are back. I always had my fiercest rivalries with them in my Civ 2 games. Also now I actually like playing Carthage.

A couple of questions. I noticed in the PTW manual that their are now agression levels for the civs. Was this in Civ 3? If so and even if not so, what are the agression levels for the old civs? Also is the AI more agressive in general this time around? The reason I ask, is I usually have to start a war in the ancient era if I want to fight, unless of course my civ is really weak. In my last three PTW games, I have had three civs at a time declare war on me. I was trounced very early in the game. This was on Monarch level, which I stink at anyway.

One other thing. Aren't the new leaders a little on the extra ugly side? Ghengis Khan looks like his head fell into a hay baler.

	06-12-2002 13:24									#2
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Yes. Aggression levels can be set with the Civ3 editor. 1 is lowest (Ghandi), 5 is highest (Shaka and Bismarck).

Yes. the general level of aggression has been increased for all civs. They are far less likely to leave you alone if weak, and are far more likely to declare war if you tell them to stuff an ultimatum (it is almost assured now).

Yes. The ugly stick was passed around generously with some of the leaders. How would you look if your knickname were 'hairy breeches'?

	06-12-2002 13:27									#3
	Re: I'm eating my words Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley A couple of questions. I noticed in the PTW manual that their are now agression levels for the civs. Was this in Civ 3? If so and even if not so, what are the agression levels for the old civs? Also is the AI more agressive in general this time around? The reason I ask, is I usually have to start a war in the ancient era if I want to fight, unless of course my civ is really weak. In my last three PTW games, I have had three civs at a time declare war on me. I was trounced very early in the game. This was on Monarch level, which I stink at anyway. One other thing. Aren't the new leaders a little on the extra ugly side? Ghengis Khan looks like his head fell into a hay baler.

If I'm not mistaken, each Civ has had an aggression level since Civ 3. The value ranges from 1 to 5. For instance, India has a value of 1, whereas Germany has a value of 5. But then again, I don't play with the editor. These values are based on previous discussions with people who have editor experience.

And yes, Temujin is extremely ugly in PTW. OMG I about fell out of my chair when I saw his "Annoyed" expression. Too funny.

EDIT: Hrm, simultaneous posts. NYE and I have the same comments.

	06-12-2002 14:50									#4
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Weren't there agression levels in Civ1 ??? I always thought the different civilizations had different gaming styles in that game.

	06-12-2002 18:26									#5
	Re: I'm eating my words Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley ...what are the agression levels for the old civs?

If you open the editor and go to the Civilizations tab, you can see the stats for all the Civs, new and old.

Like that hay baler comment...

	06-12-2002 23:07									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This all seems strange to me I havnt noticed the civs in PTW being much more aggressive. I do notice they are more stubborn though. I also notice that in PTW one AI civ it seems will never attack another AI civ even if one is far weaker then the other. The game should be set so that the AI acts more as 1 player rather then as 1 player controlling all the civs in the game but 1 the 1 being yours.

In fact even before PTW it seemded for the most part that AI civs didnt like attacking other AI civs which to me makes the game kinda stale. I mean what fun is it if you are the only one that can decide to bring bloodshed upon the world? Id prefer a AI that acted hostile towards any weaker state/civ.

	06-12-2002 23:23									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In the game I'm currently playing, I started with 24 civs and only 11 made it out of the Middle Ages. I have only eliminated one Civ personally, so the AI is responsible for the other 12. That seems somewhat aggressive to me.

Then again, I've modded resources to be somewhat more scarce than in the vanilla version, so the AI might have more reason to go to war than usual.

	07-12-2002 00:28									#8
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Stuie does bring up a point. Often the less aggressive civs will not go to war if there is no reason to. Give them an excuse like a critical resource shortage and they will go nuts. In my last game there were wars somewhere in the world since the ancient era.

	07-12-2002 01:01									#9
	Re: Re: I'm eating my words Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Stuie If you open the editor and go to the Civilizations tab, you can see the stats for all the Civs, new and old. Like that hay baler comment...

Thanks.

I never modify my games, so I never thought to look there.

	07-12-2002 01:30									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I modded mine to include more resources. But then I hear that the Hall of Fame will not work with a modded civ3x.bix file, or so.

I usually do not like less resources, so I up them all, but still just getting around to playing it.

I down the resource depletion also for the strategic resouces so they last longer, plus usually add the number of cities higher, and the map bigger in the mod also. Corruption, being what it is! But that also has a slider now, where it can be down from the usual 100% to anything lower. although, I left that the same. Just increased the number of optimal cities.

Plus, only 8 Civ's on a hugh map or nine Civ's!
I take off the special abilities also, so everything is equal.

Now, all I have to explain is why I still lose, but then, I actually may get to finish a game soon, after the homework is done.

Also, many other things with the editor and new units someone else mentioned, and all of that still coming up with scenarios whenever, the editor includes the rules text files like Civ II, and other upgrades, perhaps, if everyone is nice.

Please, Sid, Please, Jeff, Please, Please, Please!

Can you say 'please' fast six times?

I am a microbe!

	07-12-2002 02:09									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm not aure about Civ 1, but Civ 2 has 3 agression levels, with the "orange" civs seeming to be most agressive in standard games. (A builder could ensure a more peaceful game was ensured if you played one of those civs, at least until their power rating reached "Supreme")

Civ III has 5 agression levels, ranging from -2 (France / India) to +2 (Germany / Zulus).

I think almost every new civ in PTW is +1 and +2 by default.

In Civ II & Civ III (both with & without PTW) prior to a game starting, you can adjust the agressive settings for the AIs along with their tactics.

quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Weren't there agression levels in Civ1 ??? I always thought the different civilizations had different gaming styles in that game.

	07-12-2002 02:28									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Civ 1 had personalities too. Faint-hearted players would play as the Indians or Mongols to avoid having to face the computer's Mongol hordes at some point in the game.

	07-12-2002 07:54									#13
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Somebody tell me the goofy and unreasonable Trade and Diplomatic AI has been fixed. Won't get PTW until then, and only if in the $9.95 bin.

	07-12-2002 08:02									#14
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Ladies and Gentlemen: CORACLE IS IN DA HOUSE!

Seriously, what exactly are you asking? Maybe someone can give you an answer.

	07-12-2002 09:24									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley Ladies and Gentlemen: CORACLE IS IN DA HOUSE! Seriously, what exactly are you asking? Maybe someone can give you an answer.

I believe he's asking if the unreasonable trades have been fixed yet "Ill give you my word map.....for your world map, all your gold, all your gold per term, every single tech you hjave, and gems! Its a fair deal....."

	07-12-2002 11:08									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I believe he's asking if the unreasonable trades have been fixed yet "Ill give you my word map.....for your world map, all your gold, all your gold per term, every single tech you hjave, and gems! Its a fair deal....."

If you can't get fair trades, it's your own damn fault. Besides, their trades sound fair to me. Lord knows if I could I would do the exact same thing, and I have before.

	07-12-2002 13:04									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Coracle Somebody tell me the goofy and unreasonable Trade and Diplomatic AI has been fixed. Won't get PTW until then, and only if in the $9.95 bin.

No. I would not tell you that, even if it were true.

	07-12-2002 14:21									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i got a copy too..but i didn't pay for it, i got some other idiot to buy it and give it to me

	07-12-2002 14:26									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

He tried that. For some strange reason, Firaxis will not give him a copy.

	07-12-2002 14:57									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i really havn't enjoyed the mp process much

	07-12-2002 22:57									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

wars can last an entire game.

My last game I was at the center of very delicate world war happenging all around me since ancient era. Because of this I slowly made my way to modern age when the other world leaders were only up to half middle age (some still at ancient)

I was luckky at the right place at the right time.