06-12-2002 22:32									#31
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Studies have shown that, when school uniforms are instituted, juvenile crime drops.

One job I had removed his rules for wearing suits & ties and let us wear anything. After a week or two of casual clothes, I chose to go back to the suit & tie because, when I wore them, my thinking and work ethic were much more disciplined.

	06-12-2002 22:34									#32
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Boris you were adorable!! (Er...what happened? )

	06-12-2002 22:35									#33
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I can't believe anyone would actually choose to wear a tie...

	06-12-2002 22:36									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Boris you were adorable!! (Er...what happened? )

Er, that's not me, just some random pic of a Kraut kid I got from google.

	07-12-2002 00:06									#35
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Im in favor of school uniforms
girls in some sort of unifrom turns me on big time

I wore a uniform in elementary school when my fammily moved back to koreas for few years until we came back to US... the experience wasn't THAT bad.

	07-12-2002 01:41									#36
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I've never worn a uniform. It's a silly idea that inhibits students' freedom of expression. Needless to say, that gets a thumbs down from me.

	07-12-2002 02:00									#37
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This "issue" is in the same class as abortion. It is made to be way bigger of a deal than it is. I'm personally against them, I guess, because they are completely unnecessary. Dress codes are ok though.

	07-12-2002 02:11									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I've never worn a uniform. It's a silly idea that inhibits students' freedom of expression. Needless to say, that gets a thumbs down from me.

Uniforms are just a form of dress code. By your logic, a student could "express" themselves by coming to school shirtless, or shoeless, or with a shirt that read "Kill all the Jews."

If a district wants uniforms, it's their right to impose it as a standard in public schools the same way it is to impose standards of conduct, standard text books, etc.

I don't buy the inhibiting freedom of expression notion. Surely rules against shouting racial slurs could be considered the same, and they are prohibited.

Besides, I don't think the purpose of school is to let kids express themselves. They can do that all they want on their own time. I certainly can't express myself that much at work. I do it when I'm off the clock.

	07-12-2002 02:18									#39
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Not at all. I have never asserted that students have an absolute right to freedom of expression (adults don't even have that). I was merely pointing out that it's a silly idea, so the restriction on freedom is unjustified. IMO, any form of authority needs to be justified to exist.

	07-12-2002 02:24									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I don't buy the inhibiting freedom of expression notion. Surely rules against shouting racial slurs could be considered the same, and they are prohibited.

Shouting racial slurs is prohibited? Maybe in France...

	07-12-2002 02:28									#41
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At school. Which I find acceptable (within reason of course).

	07-12-2002 02:36									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo At school. Which I find acceptable (within reason of course).

What prohibition of racial slurs wouldn't you consider "within reason"?

	07-12-2002 02:41									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH They stop kids getting bullied for coming from poor families and having sh1t clothes (if they do come from poor families they can get help to pay for the uniforms)

I can't say that's true. I know people around here who are so poor they can only afford the school uniform ... and get seriously hassled about it for wearing uniform in the weekends/holidays.

	07-12-2002 02:46									#44
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quote: What prohibition of racial slurs wouldn't you consider "within reason"?

Well, it depends on the context. I'm sure you can come up with examples yourself, but if people are shouting racial epithets at each other, it's not exactly the best environment for learning, and I think the teacher has authority to prevent such disruption.

	07-12-2002 02:49									#45
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My school is pretty reasonably with uniform .

All it is:

Blue Shorts/Trousers/Skirt (Funnily enough both guys and girls are allowed to wear any of these)
Blue Polo shirt/dress shirt.
Skyblue Woolen jersey/dark blue polar fleece/dark blue sleeveless vest
Blue socks
Plain Black/brown laceup shoes or sandals.
Tidy mufti for seniors.

The rules are sooo easy to bend. Many of the girls where uniform 10 sizes to small ...

And provided you are wearing like the blue polar fleece, you can wear whatever shirt underneath it. (Which is fun at lunchtime ... take of jersey ... and out comes the highly offensive shirt.


The main problem I have with uniform is that it is so damn expensive. For instance ... the blue polo shirt that the school requires us to wear ... costs $50!!! I can buy a much better quality black polo shirt for like $20 at the local menswearshop ... which is by no means cheap.

	07-12-2002 02:59									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Well, it depends on the context. I'm sure you can come up with examples yourself, but if people are shouting racial epithets at each other, it's not exactly the best environment for learning, and I think the teacher has authority to prevent such disruption.

Well considering that racial slurs are just a particularly offensive form of an insult, I think the teacher has the authority to prevent a disruption of this kind whether racial slurs are being used or not. All insults are not created equal?

	07-12-2002 03:15									#47
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Right. Never said otherwise. That's why I justified it in terms of general disruption to education.

	07-12-2002 03:37									#48
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Seeraafuku na sugoi desu!

	07-12-2002 03:46									#49
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I can't find a decent picture, but I had to wear school uniform.

You may have luck if you look around this site: http://www.saintolaves.net

	07-12-2002 04:01									#50
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Yes, and I can't complain. The girls look great in them.

	07-12-2002 04:18									#51
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When discussing school uniforms and how they relate to freedom of expression, I find it gauche to bring up issues such as wearing a "kill all jews" shi(r)t. Or going topless or what have you. Doing these things constitute agressive behavior, however passive it may be, and are unacceptable due to the nature of school.
What of my friend, however, who wore a necklace with an empty bullet case on it from Israel? No one even realized it was there, or paid attention to it, or asked him about it, but that did not make it any less important to him. It was his reminder of the conflict and how it must stop. He was sent down to the principle's office for carrying a weapon in school...
Our clothes are extensions of ourselves. My hat, t-shirt, shoes, I wear them all for a reason. I want to look halfway decent, and I also want to look like ME - not like everyone else. A sense of style is important to one's livelihood and self-esteem. To enforce one option for bodily expression really does supress individuality, although a person's individuality is still far too strong to let one simple action shatter it.
Can ya dig it?

	07-12-2002 04:50									#52
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Interesting. I dislike School Uniforms because they're grotesquely uncomfortable. Our uniforms were:

August--->April. Tweed jacket, black pants, white as white shirts. Blue/White striped tie. No jewelery or hair gel. It was awful, the tweed jacket let in the rain and always stank. Our shoes had to be black, not past the ankle bone, with no suede allowed.

April--->June. Heavy, heavy wool navy blue jacket that we weren't allowed to take off. Talk about a load! Still I made a poachers pocket in the back so I could steal stuff, lots of stuff

My history teacher claimed I was the reason "communism wouldn't work. You're the bastard that ruins production quotas and always takes more than his fair share."


Our school used uniform to project an image of order and neatness to the outside. being a private school, they attached a premium to reputation (aka customers)

	07-12-2002 04:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Can ya dig it?

All well and good--when you're on your own time. However, it is understood as a general concept that attending school, even public, is putting you under the obligation to follow the rules the school and the district have deemed fit, regardless of how those rules effect your expression.

You're free to wear absolutely what you want when you're at home or out and about in your free time. When you're at school, you are supposed to follow the rules.

I think there is a reasonable case to be made for uniforms improving the educational environment. I think any public school district that wants to enact them has every right to do so.

	07-12-2002 05:09									#54
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What you wear is an expression of speech. I think the Supreme Court declared that a while back with those armband dudes. I can't really remember now, however.

And since what you wear is a freedom, then anyone trying to cut that freedom is breaking the law. [kidding] Hey, everyone, rip off your shirt![/kidding]

Really though, my school district has an easy rule about t-shirts with offensive slogans: Anything that promotes the use or act of doing something that is illegal for minors (and thereby adults I assume) is breaking the dress code. That means you can't have a shirt saying "Camel Cigarettes" with the camel dude, or "Kill all Jews." (Killing is a criminal act here ) A shirt like "Free Mitnick" (did I spell his name right?) or "Stop the Israeli Terror" would probably be okay, however, although no one has tested the rule yet. Yet.

	07-12-2002 05:28									#55
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School uniforms are fine. You just need to teach the kids how to appreciate them better.

Boys get the eye candy and girls get something meaningless to rebel against.

	07-12-2002 05:30									#56
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School uniforms are fine, not having them is still even better.

They're pointless. The only point they serve is standardization, and there is no standard student...

	07-12-2002 05:45									#57
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Yeah I wore them all through grade school.

As to the reasons for uniforms, I don't have a clue except that it does tend to keep expenses down as kids, especially girls, don't have to have so many outfits.

It would be interesting to find out where the practice began and why.

	07-12-2002 06:27									#58
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hmmm.... freedom of expression, eye candy, freedom, eye candy...

It doesn't seem that hard for me here.

Asian school uniform wasn't that bad. But then again I don't remember jack other than getting into fights with damn faggy neighborhood kids...

and jaako, couldnt you have found more sexier picture than that? thats horrible!

	07-12-2002 06:57									#59
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Sakaki-san isn't very photogenic, what can ya do?

	07-12-2002 07:24									#60
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wat the hell is that from? the animation dont look to good IMO. or maybe it was just that pic.