06-12-2002 21:13									#1
	OCC-great wonders Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I just started my first (regent) OCC game, And I wondered which great wonders to head for?

(When I got iron working I got 3 iron!! in my borders (which can be worked) and I allready snatched The great library, The great wall( by accident), cpernicus and bachs's)

	06-12-2002 23:25									#2
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You need to think about victory conditions and how you want to win. Generally, I've found that cultural is easiest in OCC, followed by spaceship. Domination is obviously out. Diplomatic is difficult as you need to build the UN and somehow persuade the other civs to vote for a pipsqueak. Conquest is possible usually only on tiny water-heavy maps via grunt-rushing basically.

So, with that in mind, you want wonders that produce buckets of culture and speed your research.

Generally, I split these into ones that actually benefit a single city civ and ones where you just want to deny them to the opposition.

So ....

Useful for one city:

Copernicus, Seti, Newtons, TOE, GL -- all useful to boost your research

Bach's, Shakespeare, Hanging Gardens -- lots of culture and keep your citizens happy (it can be hard to get lots of luxuries in OCC)

Useful for the Culture & for AI denial, but not necessarily must-have:

Pyramids -- useful for the culture and to deny the AI, obviously a lot cheaper to build your own granary.

Sistine Chapel, Hoovers, Oracle

Not much culture, put your shields elsewhere unless you really want to deny them to the AI

Great Wall -- not much culture at all (less than some normal buildings if I remember right) and not of great use (if you play an OCC where your city is attacked a lot, you're doing it wrong!)

Sun Tzu, Leonardo's -- how much fighting and upgrading are you going to be doing?

Magellan's, Lighthouse -- useful for discovering civs first and trading with them, not much else (and frankly, I'd rather have my one city landlocked with good land than with zero shield ocean tiles)



I'm sure I've forgotten some ... the Modern Age wonders usually aren't worth going after as the game is over by then (cultural) or because you're busy building spaceship parts instead.

What do other people think about this?


solodar

	06-12-2002 23:57									#3
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The easist OCC civ is probably Babylon due to all the reductions of cost of cultural buildings.

I'd sugest starting the first wonder you can right after having 2 military units as police men and a Temple. You can switch to a different wonder later before the build if you get the tech.

If you can build multiple wonders, but one costs less shields to buiild than the other, I'd sugest building the cheaper one first until about 1000 AD due to increased culture for old buildings

Among wonders that cost the same shields to produce, whichever produces the most culure is the higher priority.

Building wonders that trigure your GA while still in depostism is okay under an OCC as long you use your GA to build more wonders.

In the Modern Era (if you reach it), build the UN. If after a Diplomatic Victory it's the only way you can vote for youself. And even if your not interested in winning via it, you can filibuster attempts of a well liked AI of winning via this.

Highest culuture producing ancient era wonder: Great Libary.

Highest culuture producing middle ages wonder: Shakespheres Theater (And in a OCC, it's effects are more than Sistines and Bachs combined)

Highest culture produing modern era wonder: UN

	07-12-2002 01:28									#4
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joncnunn beat me to it: vital wonder to add is Shakespeare's Theater, which is huge culturally -- both for yourself, and for AI denial (assuming cultural victory goal), because you have to amass double your nearest rival's culture score. That plus Great Library are the two most important, IMO.

	07-12-2002 01:40									#5
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Re: Cultural Victory in OCC

I usually get it via the 20,000 points in one city rather than the civilization total victory.

Shakespeare rules, for both culture and for the happiness.

	07-12-2002 01:56									#6
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You don't need 2X culture when going for Cultural Victory in a OCC game. You need exactly 20K culture in this case.

It's only when going for the entire empire culture of 100K+ that you also need to double the nearest rival's empire culture.

	07-12-2002 02:09									#7
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Aaahhh....
Y'know, this explains a victory awhile back that had baffled me.

(Note to self: Computers rarely make basic mathematical errors. "I guess it added wrong"? Not to likely. )

	09-12-2002 21:33									#8
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Culture victory on OCC is often times too easy, and the key there is to just build as many wonders as possible. If you prefer a more difficult (and, often times, furstrating) challenge, go for Spaceship. I usually disable all victory conditions except spaceship and conquest, as diplomatic victory in a OCC is actually very easy - all other civs will usually love you due to continuous trading, and a well-timed prebuild will guarantee the UN.

For a spacesip victory, you want: Colossus, GL, Cop's, Newton's, ToE, and SETI. If you can sneak in the Oracle between Colossus and GL (usually not possible on higher levels), then the extra content face will be very helpful.

However, there is another important consideration when going for OCC SS victory - your GA. You ideally want a modern GA, and therefore you don't want to build any wonders that trigger it early. The 6 wonders above cover Rel, Exp, and Sci, so avoid wonders that pair your civ trait with the ones above. If your civ is none of the above, you have more flexibility in wonder building.

	10-12-2002 14:20									#9
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But what do you do when you only have one city, which is beautiful, has 6 wonders (the good ones) great growt, commerce and productivity and then in about 2 turns the russians attack you and pillage your perfectly railroaded, irrigated and mined landscape?

	10-12-2002 17:25									#10
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1. You should build a military large enough to protect yourself
2. enter into an alliance, have the AI's do your dirtywork. One of the benefits of an OCC is that the amount of trading increases which makes yor relations with other AI's improved. You should however agree to AI demands unless they are completely unreasonable.