19-12-2002 00:05									#61
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"Višv. 1) Treytaš frįdųming af koyrikorti fyri promillukoyring

Sambęrt § 59a ķ uppskotinum veršur nś mųguligt at fįa treytaša frįdųming av koyrikortinum hjį persóni, iš er tikin fyri promillukoyring."

This quote is from a Danish article (I think Danish, anyway) which included the term "promillan"as well as the prefix "promill-" seen above. The term was being used in a statistical context, but I can't suss the precise meaning. You Euro guys are something else with your english- I'm more impressed the more I get my butt kicked by this stuff.

Last edited by lucky22 on 19-12-2002 at 00:25

	19-12-2002 00:13									#62
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btw: Yesterday I saw a large group of Morganite tourists who took pictures of each other standing in front of the 35m high giant Xenobrew-advertisment...
That“s Morgan“s taste, I think...

	19-12-2002 00:37									#63
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Are you sure that formula is correct, Lucky??? I did some testing.

To determine the total growth over a certain period:

My total formula:
[(Last Figure - First figure) / (First Figure)] * 100
For Sheathed Sword nutrients:
[(7-6)/6] * 100 = 16.67
Check: 6 + 6*0.166 = 7

Your total formula:
(1-[First Figure/Last Figure])*100
For Sheathed Sword nutrients:
[1-(6/7)] * 100 = 14.29
Check: 6 + 6*0.1429 = 6.86

Mine seems correct. To determine the average annual growth however, my formula doesn't work. I already tested yours, and unfortunately it doesn't seem to work either.

To determine the annual growth:

My annual formula:

[Last Figure - First figure) / (First Figure)] * 100 / # of years

For Sheathed Sword nutrients:
[(7-6)/6] * 100 / 4 = 4.1666...
Year 0: 6 nutrients
Year 1: 6 * 1.04167 = 6.25
Year 2: 6.25 * 1.04167 = 6.51
Year 3: 6.51 * 1.04167 = 6.78
Year 4: 6.78 * 1.04167 = 7.06

As expected, every year the difference between the expected and calculated number increases, making the formula completely inadequate for determining the average annual growth for longer periods of time.

Your annual formula:
((1-[First Figure/Last Figure])/[# of years])*100
(Did I put the extra brackets right?)

For Sheathed Sword nutrients:
[(1-[6/7])/4] * 100 = 3.57
Year 0: 6 nutrients
Year 1: 6 * 1.0357 = 6.21
Year 2: 6.21 * 1.0357 = 6.44
Year 3: 6.44 * 1.0357 = 6.67
Year 4: 6.67 * 1.0357 = 6.90

So here the end number is lower than the number we should get, around 7. Did I do anything wrong??

	19-12-2002 00:45									#64
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"Promillian" is actually an adjective I invented myself. I don't know if it exists in English. In Dutch the substanstif "promille" is used. Anyway, for its meaning, it's very simple.

Pro centum (Latin) -> Pour cent (French) -> Percent(ual) (English)
Pro millia (Latin) -> Promille (Dutch/Fr.?) -> (my neologism) Promillian
Whereas "centum" means hundred and "millia" means thousand in Latin.
Though percentages are used most of the time, for things such as population, figures on thousand, especially when dealing with birth and starvation rates, are more frequent here.

	19-12-2002 01:16									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Are you sure that formula is correct, Lucky??? I did some testing. To determine the total growth over a certain period: My total formula: [(Last Figure - First figure) / (First Figure)] * 100 For Sheathed Sword nutrients: [(7-6)/6] * 100 = 16.67 Check: 6 + 6*0.166 = 7 Your total formula: (1-[First Figure/Last Figure])*100 For Sheathed Sword nutrients: [1-(6/7)] * 100 = 14.29 Check: 6 + 6*0.1429 = 6.86

Check: 6+7*0.1429=7.0003

Year 7 is the actual baseline for my formula. It is retrocative and not predictive, which leads us to...

quote: To determine the annual growth: My annual formula: [Last Figure - First figure) / (First Figure)] * 100 / # of years For Sheathed Sword nutrients: [(7-6)/6] * 100 / 4 = 4.1666... Year 0: 6 nutrients Year 1: 6 * 1.04167 = 6.25 Year 2: 6.25 * 1.04167 = 6.51 Year 3: 6.51 * 1.04167 = 6.78 Year 4: 6.78 * 1.04167 = 7.06

Here's a major clue...

quote: As expected, every year the difference between the expected and calculated number increases, making the formula completely inadequate for determining the average annual growth for longer periods of time.

The rate of growth isn't linear. We need an integral to estimate the actual number at a given year.

quote: Your annual formula: ((1-[First Figure/Last Figure])/[# of years])*100 (Did I put the extra brackets right?) For Sheathed Sword nutrients: [(1-[6/7])/4] * 100 = 3.57 Year 0: 6 nutrients Year 1: 6 * 1.0357 = 6.21 Year 2: 6.21 * 1.0357 = 6.44 Year 3: 6.44 * 1.0357 = 6.67 Year 4: 6.67 * 1.0357 = 6.90 So here the end number is lower than the number we should get, around 7. Did I do anything wrong??

In order to be "predictive" my formula needs to be recalculated using 6.21 rather than 6 at year 1 and so on. Could get tedious. If we have the formula for nutrient production handy (that would actually be a lot of work) we can do an integral setting X to be time and Y to be nutrients- if there isn't any neckbreaking trigonometry involved ( ) then we'll have a handy computing formula for any given year... that result will differ from the average annual growth by definition.

quote: Pro millia (Latin) -> Promille (Dutch/Fr.?) -> (my neologism) Promillian

D'oh!! Thanks. We'd go with "per thousand". We (well, I, certainly) forget that "percent" comes from somewhere other than mom.

	19-12-2002 02:17									#66
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Thanks for the explanation!

quote: The rate of growth isn't linear. We need an integral to estimate the actual number at a given year.

Integrals! My my, and I thought it would be some simple formula to take the exponential (or whatver you have to call it) growth into account.
* Maniac tries to remember the math of last year.

quote: if there isn't any neckbreaking trigonometry involved

Oh my. I heard just today I have 20/20 on my statistics exam ( ), but I'm clearly far from an expert.

quote: that result will differ from the average annual growth by definition.

What would it give then? I'm looking for some formula to be able to calculate what's the total percentual growth in food/mineral/energy production and population during my governorship (which can be done by my simple formula), and besides that being able to say what the annual percentual growth is up until now. I would put these figures under the "Population and economic overview" in my first post.

	19-12-2002 02:25									#67
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quote: Originally posted by lucky22 "Višv. 1) Treytaš frįdųming af koyrikorti fyri promillukoyring Sambęrt § 59a ķ uppskotinum veršur nś mųguligt at fįa treytaša frįdųming av koyrikortinum hjį persóni, iš er tikin fyri promillukoyring." This quote is from a Danish article (I think Danish, anyway)

Actually, it's Icelandic. Way, way cooler.

	19-12-2002 03:08									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Thanks for the explanation! Integrals! My my, and I thought it would be some simple formula to take the exponential (or whatver you have to call it) growth into account. * Maniac tries to remember the math of last year.

If I wrote out rather than implied the the formula then it would be no big deal, probably. I am unable to write it out right now, so who's the doofus?

quote: Oh my. I heard just today I have 20/20 on my statistics exam ( ), but I'm clearly far from an expert.

Right on... if you choose to spend time on it, you will of course master it.

quote: What would it give then?

It would give the growth rate for that individual year. The growth actually occurs on a curve. The average for a single year implies a (falsely) linear relationship between time and quantity of nutrients.

quote: I'm looking for some formula to be able to calculate what's the total percentual growth in food/mineral/energy production and population during my governorship (which can be done by my simple formula), and besides that being able to say what the annual percentual growth is up until now. I would put these figures under the "Population and economic overview" in my first post.

Either report the average annual rate, which isn't all that misleading, recalculate the formula for each year relative to the previous year, or else plot the growth curve and determine the rate of change at each year by finding the slope of the tangent line for the point representing that year on the graph. Reporting results on the second two will not be very compact and non-constant rates of change are kind of esoteric anyway.

My advice would be to report the average annual rate, and if it reflects positively on your governorship an average increase in the annual rate, based on the recalulation method.

	19-12-2002 03:21									#69
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quote: Originally posted by moomin Actually, it's Icelandic. Way, way cooler.

...

	19-12-2002 03:49									#70
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Micha: WTF? did someone relocate Xenobrew Inc.'s head office without my knowledge? geez, i have to pay more attention

maniac, i'm thinking of moving the Central Foreign Affairs Complex to somewhere remote and mysterious. Mt Centauri is a candidate, along with an platform in the middle of the FWC

	19-12-2002 04:56									#71
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.... eh? Why would you want to move the Foreign Affairs Complex? It belongs to me, remember?

	19-12-2002 05:43									#72
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quote: Originally posted by TKG Micha: WTF? did someone relocate Xenobrew Inc.'s head office without my knowledge? geez, i have to pay more attention

Actually, it“s not the head office, it“s just the Pandemonium xenobrew building...

Hm, what do you think, shall I buy more of this street artist“s stuff??? Or shall I use the money to "test" the quality of xeno inc.“s alcoholic products?

	19-12-2002 07:12									#73
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look, i meant INTERNAL affairs

	19-12-2002 13:28									#74
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quote: Pro centum (Latin) -> Pour cent (French) -> Percent(ual) (English) Pro millia (Latin) -> Promille (Dutch/Fr.?) -> (my neologism) Promillian

?!

No, in French, we say "pour mille", like we say "pour cent".

	19-12-2002 16:02									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak No, in French, we say "pour mille", like we say "pour cent".

And in German it is "Promille", like it is "Prozent". Are you quite sure it doesn“t exit in English, too?

	19-12-2002 19:54									#76
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back to the 'danish' article...
it wasn't danish or icelandic, you wrote in the almighty ancient Foreyjaske
speak more oh holy viking master

	19-12-2002 21:00									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Micha And in German it is "Promille", like it is "Prozent". Are you quite sure it doesn“t exit in English, too?

Yes, sir, quite sure, within U.S. English. Occasionally the term "mil" is seen in older textbooks when "parts per thousand" are being discussed, with a mil being a part. Not at all a common usage though. Maybe language implying a continuity of proportions is too "metric" for us, causing loss of bladder control and communist tendencies.

	19-12-2002 21:29									#78
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Is there one more place at your region? I've decided to settle somewhere...

	19-12-2002 21:34									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Oh yes, I just added a new paragraph about Terminal Dogma's free trade zone. Is it ok Archaic?

Sorry it took so long to reply. You wouldn't believe the mess I've got here IRL. Worst time of year to try and concentrate on something I'm afraid. I hate to think how many days it's been since I've got on the forums.

Looks just fine.

	19-12-2002 22:17									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Chris back to the 'danish' article... it wasn't danish or icelandic, you wrote in the almighty ancient Foreyjaske

don't have the url- did a 'google' search for 'promillan'...
so is Foreyjaske a "proto-norse"? Did I stumble accross an article in the equivalent of Celtic or Welsh?

	20-12-2002 01:08									#81
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Häämm i though it was dialect from old norse, its something like mixed danish and icelandic.. but its closest to the old viking language.. there only live like 40.000 people over there and the language was almost lost because these guys belong to danmark..
anyway i think this piece is from something like the laws, alcohol in traffic etc...

	20-12-2002 02:02									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Chris Häämm i though it was dialect from old norse, its something like mixed danish and icelandic.. but its closest to the old viking language.. there only live like 40.000 people over there and the language was almost lost because these guys belong to danmark.. anyway i think this piece is from something like the laws, alcohol in traffic etc...

Thanks. Apparently there is a little cross-over with German too, maybe for technical terms? I realize this is sort of OT at this point.

	20-12-2002 02:23									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Kirov Is there one more place at your region? I've decided to settle somewhere...

But of course!!! Jedinica Vrijstaat is always open to new souls and opinions! What base would you desire to settle in? As you've probably noticed, there is a large first post describing the special character and sphere of each base.

	20-12-2002 02:31									#84
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quote: Originally posted by lucky22 I realize this is sort of OT at this point.

Nonsense! Everything that keeps the Jedinica Vrijstaat thread on the first page is ok to me!

	20-12-2002 03:05									#85
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yeah and above all, borrowing words and stuff is not very rare here in europe..
good, i'm doing advertisment for the freedom state of Jedinica and i'm spamming myself up to something more than settler..

	20-12-2002 03:06									#86
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Way to go!

	20-12-2002 08:54									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac But of course!!! Jedinica Vrijstaat is always open to new souls and opinions! What base would you desire to settle in? As you've probably noticed, there is a large first post describing the special character and sphere of each base.

Thank you. I think I will settle in Concordia, seems to have very interestic geography... But first, can you show me the way to the next whisky bar?

	20-12-2002 14:52									#88
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The Rec Commons is here. At the moment I don't think we have a Jedinica bar. Idea for the future maybe Maniac?

	20-12-2002 22:24									#89
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Hmm yes, I've thought about the Rec Commons issue as well. It is supposed to be located near the New Apolyton government palace. And I am still supposed to be the bartender. But I live in Concordia...

Though I'd love for the Jedinican citizens to feel really like a citizen of their region (by some RP aspects and giving exclusive voting rights), I don't know if a seperate rec commons would be a good idea. That would seperate our faction a little too much I think. Perhaps a possible solution to maintain a possible RP reality, until we have discovered zero-time-transmission gates in some far future, would be that at every base, citizens can log into the Virtual World at their local network node, and then enter a virtual Rec Commons, which wouldn't be located in some fix base. What'd ye think?

	20-12-2002 22:30									#90
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I like it Wow, we can have our own rec commons in our homes!! Now, who's the nanoscientist? We need personal Virtual World portals

I agree about the seperate commons too actually. We need to remain united, if only by beer