08-12-2002 06:42									#1
	Spearmen don't upgrade to pikemen anymore? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I finally got around to playing a game after spending the last week of Civ3 time modifying the game with the editor. Now I find that I can't upgrade any of my spearmen to pikemen. I go into the editor and look at the entry for spearmen and it says they upgrade to Numidian Mercenary, the carthaginian special unit which is a pikeman replacement. I have seen this with several other units, where it upgrades to a UU that can't actually be built. I assumed that was a way for the game to make a unit not upgradeable. Is this normal or did I accidentally change something with the editor? A mistake from the good people at Firaxis?

	08-12-2002 07:15									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If you follow the upgrade chain of the Spearman in the editor, you will see, that the Numidian Mercenary upgrades to the Pikeman. Since you can't build the N.M. (unless you are Carthage), you can upgrade the Spearman to the Pikeman.

As for your problem, did you check if you have iron connected?

	08-12-2002 09:13									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

There is an upgrade chain. If you can't build a unit due to lack of tech, resources, or because your civ just plain isn't allowed to, it goes to the next unit and tries to upgrade to it. It stops at the highest level upgrade that is legal. In this example the chain goes:

Spearman->Num Merc->Pikeman->Musketman->Musketeer->Rifleman->Infantry->Mech Infantry

	08-12-2002 09:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Note if you are playn as Greece n have Hoplites you cannot upg to pikeman. ALso why would up upg to Pikemen if a Merc is attack 2 n Def of 3 vs pike which is attack of 1 n def of 3?

	08-12-2002 13:37									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think you need barracks too

	08-12-2002 13:45									#6
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Nick727 Note if you are playn as Greece n have Hoplites you cannot upg to pikeman. ALso why would up upg to Pikemen if a Merc is attack 2 n Def of 3 vs pike which is attack of 1 n def of 3?

You don't until you skip the Pike to the Musket.

	08-12-2002 18:04									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Nick727 Note if you are playn as Greece n have Hoplites you cannot upg to pikeman. ALso why would up upg to Pikemen if a Merc is attack 2 n Def of 3 vs pike which is attack of 1 n def of 3?

The Greeks have their own upgrade chain that goes like this

Hoplite->Musketman (and then follows the standard chain)

They wouldn't want to build the Pikemen as that is a step down.

The Carthaginians won't build pikemen either. If you open the editor you can see that the Pikeman can not be built by Carthage.

	08-12-2002 22:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Also, I believe that you need to have learned Invention before you can upgrade your units.

All I have to say.

	08-12-2002 23:22									#9
	Support Apolyton

No, Invention isn't needed, although barracks and cash are. Invention allows for Leonardo's which cuts the cost.

	09-12-2002 00:47									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You need Iron to build pikeman, you don't need it for NumMercs though.

	11-12-2002 04:28									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sorry it took so long to get back here, but thanks for the replies. With the aid of the suggestions here, I was able to see how I had screwed up the upgrade paths and how to fix them. With the UU's to contend with, it gets a little complicated, but there is a twisted logic to it.

	11-12-2002 05:30									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ya, it is pretty complicated. In my first release of the PtW Years of Rice and Salt, I accidently had warriors upgrading to Knights

BTW, if you have that first release, the updated file is in the Files forum, the thread should be easy to find.

	11-12-2002 10:02									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm The Greeks have their own upgrade chain that goes like this Hoplite->Musketman (and then follows the standard chain) They wouldn't want to build the Pikemen as that is a step down. The Carthaginians won't build pikemen either. If you open the editor you can see that the Pikeman can not be built by Carthage.

but u said upgrade chain is spear -->num merc ---> pike...

Why is that? isnt num and merc both 30 shield? so does PTW add extra cost when going from num merc to musket?

	11-12-2002 16:55									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, it subtracts the cost of the Num Merc from the cost of Musketmen when you do an upgrade.