10-12-2002 03:34									#1
	Sole Driving Factor Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

OBSERVATION: According to Jared Diamond, author of Guns, Germs and Steel, the sole factor driving the fates of societies on the planet Earth is geography. As in real estate, three things are important: location, location, location.

This does not seem to leave much freedom for so-called strategy, unless conquering the best-positioned territories is the orver-riding objective. This, of course, is what sucessful empires have done throughout history, with different degrees of success.
Landmass is relatively fixed, not variable, outside of a geologic time with tectonic place movements and orogeny.

QUESTION: How does geography in the time frame of recorded history and human lifespans, in its alleged dominant influence, become properly factored into the game and its outcomes? If geography is truly the sole drivintg force, does not the game become reduced to a glorified version of King of the Mountain? How else can the game be intelligently and faithfully designed?

	10-12-2002 05:06									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sure, geography is important for resources trade routes etc etc.

It is not just "what you've got but also how you use it". Here cultural and other variables come into play.

Umh, if geography was the sole driving force perhaps the Japanese, for example, would be stone age brutes with their lack of resources and out the way location instead of being a very rich and very advanced civilisation.

	10-12-2002 10:32									#3
	Re: Sole Driving Factor Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by numeraire If geography is truly the sole drivintg force, does not the game become reduced to a glorified version of King of the Mountain?

If you think about it, most games can be simplified into similar terms. But, hey, its a fun King of the Mountain

	10-12-2002 13:45									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Japan is a good example of location, in contrast to size, of territory. By using long-term contracts, Japan overcame its weak natural resource and raw material endowments. Yet contract supremity does not trump national sovreignty, and military might is required to back them up.
I read somewhere that Eurasia in this regard is the best spot on Earth, and elsewhere that Western Russia was the "heart" of Eurasia in this sense. In the long run, whoever occupies and controls, say Moscow, and its environs, will be King of the Mountain.
Granted, KOM is a truly fun game, at least for guys.

	10-12-2002 15:10									#5
	Support Apolyton

Yeah, geography IS important, both in civ3 and RL. Of course you can use strategy/technology to counter the effects of lousy geography but prime estate last longer than good strategy(unless you use your strategy to conquer better land)

	13-12-2002 02:29									#6
	Re: Sole Driving Factor Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by numeraire OBSERVATION: According to Jared Diamond, author of Guns, Germs and Steel, the sole factor driving the fates of societies on the planet Earth is geography. As in real estate, three things are important: location, location, location.

???

As I recall he talks about how close China came to dominating the world. It was the end of the fourteenth century (I think) and their naval expeditions had reached present day South Africa. Given their rate of advance they would have discovered Spain about 1415 long before it was (re)counquered from the Moors.

As I remember it it was internal politics that interfered. There was a coup and the policy of naval exploration was associated with the losers of the coup. The ship yards were closed and China turned inward.

If the coup had gone the other way...

To be sure, I think his thesis was that some Civilization on the Eurasian land mass was going to be the winner but as to which one, well that was not so clear. He was saying that in the mid thirteenth century (~1250) you might have bet on China.

Ithaca Mike