10-12-2002 18:50									#1
	Report on Gathering Storm. Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have been contacted by zeit and Gathering Storm is wondering if we would be willing to exchange geographic information with them.

He claims that GS has been contacted by several other teams on the issue and that they agree to it. The question is, do WE want to trade, if so do we alter the map, if so what do we alter...

probably the biggest advantage to such a trade would be garnering trust between nations, but if we are to do this, it should be offered to all teams to prevent someone finding out we hid it from them.

	10-12-2002 19:05									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, a show of trust could be useful, however, I feel that we should not reveal our position at this time for one reason:

OUR STARTING POSITION ROCKS!!!

I have played many civ 3 games and the more I look at our position, the more I am inclined to believe that this is quiet possibly the best starting position I have had.

We start on a hill. Bam! 50% defensive bonus. We will NOT be eliminated early.

We start on a river. Bam! Bam! Bam! Additional 25% defensive bonus on half our border. Extra commerce for quicker early tech. NO AQUADUCT!

4 shielded grassland. Bam! Growth AND production.

2 forested game. Bam! More Growth and production.

4 hills with wine. Bam! Bam! Growth, production, commerce and lux.

Hell, we even have a fish that gets lost in the Glory of our start.

I feel that if we reveal how good our start is, we will become an early target. I cannot endorse a geographical trade at this time.

However, I do recall GS talking about them having 4 lux in their radius during the opening chat. I would not have a problem with talking about a lux trade with them that takes effect as soon as we make contact.

	10-12-2002 19:18									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No trade maps for now. I agree with Donegeal, our starting position is too good. I rarely have such luck in my games... and I play in low levels.

	10-12-2002 19:23									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ditto, we should trade maps the minute we come in contact with Neo Gyptica though as they have scouts and would quickly trade our map area for free without us getting any map info back.

	10-12-2002 21:18									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

i agree with GF

	10-12-2002 23:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

OK, I will let them know. I was pretty sure that would be the decision, but just making sure.

Just so you all know, I have some serious RL problems, but I think I can manage to still do the Foreign relations stuff here. It is mostly being done through E-mail so is easier for me to keep up on. If something changes I will let you all know and resign. I wont be posting much, but will bring all querries and such to here since I may not be up to date on our policies.

Current status of other teams:

DemoGyptica has told me they are not interested in foreign relations at this time, they want to wait to at least meet people in game... I get the feeling that they either
a: feel alienated and don't trust anyone, or
b: already have an alliance with someone (my money would be on Gathering Storm)

Lux Invicta still seems a bit disorganized, but Admiral PJ and I are in communication.

	11-12-2002 00:02									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx DemoGyptica has told me they are not interested in foreign relations at this time, they want to wait to at least meet people in game... I get the feeling that they either a: feel alienated and don't trust anyone, or b: already have an alliance with someone (my money would be on Gathering Storm)

Fine, we'll wipe em out and they can feel more "loved".

	11-12-2002 01:14									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: we'll wipe em out

i concur! mwhahahah!

ps
i wish that apolyton had the crazyed mwhahaha smile like civfanatics does

	11-12-2002 02:14									#10
	Put an end to popups!

@ Unorthodox: I can always take over temporarily if you are too busy or something. BTW, Zeit sent the PM to me also when he found out that you had some RL issues. I was going to start a thread soon if you had not.

@ Everyone else: Yes, I think we are right not to sell our start map for a while (if only to make people think we did start on the island ). A good point was made about ND; but they cannot come into our boarders with their scouts and see the extent of our starting position (esp. when we have the 3 colony/cities). I think if ND comes soon while our boarders are still only 1 tile and the colonies aren't built, that we should trade maps. But, if they come later, where they can't see our interior with the scouts, we should hold out on the W/TM.

On luxuries: I think we sould trade as soon as possible. This is because we are thinking of switching or capital to a wonder. We would need the happiness to optimize production without using the luxury slider. We also have nothing to do with our extra wines.

	11-12-2002 02:52									#11
	Tired of ads?

of course were not 'popular' and shouldnt try to be, but we dont want to be totally uncooperative all the time

and no, no map trade at the moment

	11-12-2002 07:16									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with Panzer32

No trading maps yet