04-07-2000 00:17									#1
	When will a faction NOT surrender? Full PM-box? Change here!

I ask because Morgan wouldn't in my last game - I had to eradicate him. Not even when he was down to an empty last base with my unit next to it.

The only reasons I know of are bad reputation, atrocity against faction, and SE set to Aversion - but I was Noble, hadn't committed an atrocity, and always switched to FM before talking to him. So am I missing anything, or was just being a bit gash?

	04-07-2000 03:46									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Chowlett, I don't have a clue, but it happens to me as well. I sometimes think it the SE settings. But change those to something the AI faction would like seems to have no effect.

I have never tried this, and others may comment, but what if you did accept an offer of truce at least once?. You can then let a former or probe wander a little to close to one of the AI's troups so that he can attack. When he does, he may surrender on the next base you take because he has now wronged you. The theory here is that by not accepting a truce, you have greviously offended the AI faction.

	04-07-2000 09:08									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, sometimes they just won't give up.

Did you scorn him earlier in the game? It is my belief that if you reject an offer to surrender earlier in the game, you will never get another offer to surrender from that faction for the rest of the game.

Did you talk to him right after switching to FM? It seems to take a turn before all the advantages of the new SE settings kick in.

	04-07-2000 09:27									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That's true. If you turn down a surrender they'll fight to the end.

	04-07-2000 23:46									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No, he never offered to surrender. And the SE settings are 'noticeable' to the AI the turn you choose them - I wanted something from Miriam, but forgot I was running Demo (which se let me know about in no uncertain terms), so I switched to Fundy and tried again, and she called me a "fellow believer".

	05-07-2000 00:00									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yeah, sometimes you get lucky and the AI will surrender to you even when their position isn't threatened. Other days they fight it out to the bitter end, no matter what.

Glad to hear that the diplomatic bonus switches immediately after an SE change. As Miriam, I switched to Fundy and theroretically made myself immune to probes. After my turn was over the AI still kept subverting my cities. A bug or maybe I was hallucinating again?

	05-07-2000 00:05									#7
	Put an end to popups!

RedFred - no, you probably weren't hallucinating . While the diplomatic implications may kick in straight away, the bonuses don't. I accidentally left myself on FM (instead of green) at the end of some turns, and found that even switching to Green at the start of the next I had the Psi combat penalty.

	12-07-2000 06:36									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've usually found (and it's happened repeatedly) that a faction won't surrender if your faction "style" (economy, etc) was diametrically opposed to their own.

	12-07-2000 10:52									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Barry, it looks like you are new around these here parts, so welcome aboard!

What you are referring to as a faction's 'style' we normally refer to as a faction's 'SE' settings. SE = social engineering. We have a pile of SMAC abbreviations that may or may not be clear.
We are always happy to explain if someone asks, though.

	13-07-2000 01:56									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Quite so, and thanks. I've actually been playing SMAC and SMAC-X since they both were released, and reviewed them quite a while ago for a couple of publications. I was drawn here for another reason, entirely: a potential solution to the #?%&! terranx error. (None of those I've seen offered work for me.)

In any case, whatever you choose to call 'em, if you confront Deidre while running a Planned economy, rain Knowledge on the Believers' parade, etc, you can expect little cooperation while beating the fertilizer out of their Tree Farms.

	19-07-2000 09:50									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Barry,

No, alreasdy considered that - another abbreviation in my first post, FM for Free Market. So Morgan should have been fairly amicable

	20-07-2000 16:59									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In the many games I have played, I have never noticed ONCE, another faction fail to surrender to me.

Bkeela.

	25-07-2000 01:51									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You switched, though, right before you spoke with him. My impression is that attitudes take time to shift dramatically, and that a single turn using FM should not make that much difference in Morgan's regard for you.

Perhaps if you stayed with FM for 15 turns, and tried again. Worth a shot just to find out.