11-12-2002 06:31									#1
	The so-called MP bug Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I am interested in hearing what all of you guys (and girls ) have to say about my opinion that the game company would have avoided most negative reviews if they released the single player game and were honest and said that MP needed work so enjoy single player while we iron out MP.

Also, does anyone agree with me that most people who will play MP will spend a bit of time playing single player just to get a feel and hash out strategies? (Before they even think of going into the MP arena). Which will give the game company the month or so that they say they need to polish MP.

I mean, my guess is that very few will buy MOO3 and right away go into MP games...that's just foolhardy.

This is all based, of course, on the reports that the only reason the game is delayed is because of a late game MP bug.

I agree with MasterDave when he says that there may be a deeper reason for delaying...beyond an MP bug.

The game company, from the accounts that i've read, is delaying due to a late game MP bug, which I think is weird because NO software is endlessly worked on until EVERY bug is gone.

My real problem is with these games trying to incorporate SP and MP in the original release. Obviously MP is going to present some problems not encountered with SP, and SP is the heart of all games no matter what anyone says.

Release SP, be honest in not saying that your releasing some magical game that has SP AND MP, and all will be happy.

That's what I say.

P.S. I also think that game companies are falling into a trap if they think that a real-time game (like Warcraft or Starcraft) which is released with MP support fully functional, means that a turn-based game can also do the same...Obviously TBS games present a greater problem in MP than RTS games do...for whatever reason.


I think that TBS game companies feel the need to package their product with the same level of MP performance that RTS game companies do...

Perhaps the two VERY different styles of game need to be treated differently with regards to MP.


What do you think?

	11-12-2002 06:52									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

1) Wether its fool-hearty or not to jump right into MP without playing single player probally depends on how much you care about winning

2) They actually had two bugs. One was the MP bug, the other was a save-crash/corruption issue which appeared late in the game in both single and multiplayer.

3) I doubt I ever even play MP I never have with moo2, and I never did with civ 2, and I didnt even buy PtW

	11-12-2002 06:59									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well Wervdon,

If there is a save game bug with SP in late game, I agree with postponing the game...there is nothing worse than playing a game all the way thru to have it crash in late game. ( that happened to me in AC)

My post was based on an MP bug.

	11-12-2002 07:22									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm with you 100% . I don't even understand why they bothered with Multiplayer at all. All of us who are fans of the series aren't fans because of MP, because MOO never was MP. I don't want play a slow cerebral game like MOO online because when I play TBS I like to pause and think and smoke pot and look at the pretty ships and planets and contemplate weight/damage ratios and walk away and take a pee and get a beer and come back. I think MP is for stuff like half-life and Diablo and maybe some RTS games, but not MOO. I have no intention of playing MOO online, in fact I'm kinda over the whole MP thing in general. I have a screaming fast connection, but quickly grow tired of playing against unsupervised 14 year olds who can't spell faggot or ***** right. So quit making us wait and wait and wait for MP and release the DAMN GAME ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!

	11-12-2002 08:14									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I can't imagine playing this multi. Testers and staff are saying large games take weeks to finish. I can't coordinate my clothing, much less a multiple person online experience. I'll have to side with habadacus on this one. Except the pot smokin'. Damn those nasty drug tests! Burn one for me when you're carpet bombing those 'New Orions', will ya?

	11-12-2002 08:34									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Well im looking forward to multiplayer. Me and a mate will probaly buy the game at the same time, install it, jump on Roger wilco and talk to each other via our headset microphones, and learn the game together, we have done this on quite a few games, and you learn it alot faster, two heads are better then one. But then again we have been playing against each other for 5 years and yes we do have games which span weeks, like in Birth of the federation, War in Russia, Imerpium galactica series, Eurpoa Universalis series and many many more. So find your self a good friend and you can play games that last weeks, its great you build up alot of pride in the empire you create and taking his planets is a fantastic felling, espicall when he is swearing his head off over the microphone. Anyway single player is very important, but i think i this day and age any company that releases a game with crappy m/p support is doomed to poor sales and reviews. Take as long as you need IG & QS just keep us informed of whats is happening, we dont need a relese date just keep the info comming.

	11-12-2002 10:55									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You asked so I will answer... I have no real intent of playing MP... As all have stated it is too hard to coordinate a full TBS game over the weeks, all you need is one player not to show up and the game is lost. I tried MP Civ3 and found that i played quite a few game beginings but due to lag, connection lost and declining interest most of the competitors were out after 2 hours.

Unless they have revolutionized the MP experience for MoO3 i will prolly not play it.

IMHO

	11-12-2002 11:00									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

have you tried PBEM games? I've been watching some that have gone on for more than a year now, all of the fun comes from the roleplaying they do in the game. a long game might be fun once everyone knows how to play

	11-12-2002 11:50									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Absolutely true Htower. Best fun I ever had in Alpha Centauri was one of the first PBEM games flop and I played. We did a lot of roleplaying in it, and even sent little blurbs and stories of the action going on within the turns.

	12-12-2002 11:31									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I wouldn't want to play any other way, I could just see sitting there for an hour or so while the otehr player took his time to work the spreadsheets. especailly in the late game

	12-12-2002 12:01									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I liked multiplayer in MOO2, becasue the computer was so rediculously easy, even on impossible.

I played about half my games of MOO2 as 2 player hotseat or network games. It was the only way to really test out good races/strategies to find the best one, because anything good would beat the computer easily.

I like to play moderate galazy sizes, and played MOO2 network games in about 4 hours or so, maybe a little more.

I am glad Moo3 will be multiplayer, and hope to play some 2 player games online, on moderate galazy sizes. I think that if Multiplayer was the only bug they had, they shouldve released it, so we could all learn it vefore playing multi, but I suspect there were late game SP bugs too, as mentioned earlier in the thread.

	12-12-2002 19:39									#12
	Tired of ads?

You guys have to remember that when you play multiplayer, you have to make some sacrafices.

Small galaxies...few players...maybe even time limits.

PBEM rocks on TBS games. Just make sure that you have a year or so to play.

I will probably not play multi, the single player 80 bazillion planet thing is my preference.

	13-12-2002 17:28									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by wervdon 1) 2) They actually had two bugs. One was the MP bug, the other was a save-crash/corruption issue which appeared late in the game in both single and multiplayer. 3)

That souldn't be a holdup to releasing a SP version now. It has been said several times on the IG forum that SP is rock solid, and their chasing a MP bug.

FWIW

	13-12-2002 18:20									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, usenet is teemin' with QS/IG corporate conspiracies right now. Me, I really don't care - whatever the reason for the delay is, I hope it will result in a solid, playable game.

Sometime

	13-12-2002 19:06									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by BraerFox That souldn't be a holdup to releasing a SP version now. It has been said several times on the IG forum that SP is rock solid, and their chasing a MP bug. FWIW

A save file corruption that appears in both MP and SP shouldn't hold up the release of the game? Ah, what are you smoking??

I know of little worse in gaming than when you get all the way through a fun/rough game and then the file is corrupt so you can't finish. Makes me want to break the CD in half when that happens.

Oh, and what has been said on the forums was from the beta testers views, but they may not be saving games or hitting the corrupt save issue all the time, but even once in every 10 games played is too much when you figure this game will sell to a few hundred thousand people (hopefully more) right from the start.

	15-12-2002 10:34									#16
	Put an end to popups!

"Well im looking forward to multiplayer. Me and a mate will probaly buy the game at the same time, install it, jump on Roger wilco and talk to each other via our headset microphones, and learn the game together, " - quote

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!! Myself and three other mates are going to do exactly that!! THankyou whoever invented LAN and TCP/IP cuz I believe that escaping from the real world for a week and immersing ureself with three other friends into the world of MOO3 in a darkened computer room and only coming out to eat, S##T and Sleep is going to friggin awesome! We need the mp game as bug-less as possible because the MOO2 mp mode was soo crap it wasn't funny, constantly crashing and what not so I really hope the MOO3 team really kick the crap out of those mp bugs! Happy bug hunting boys!!
-Dem

	16-12-2002 23:38									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

AFAIK, there are NO showstopping issues with Single Player -- I've played all the way through a couple games, including on the biggest map sizes (as have several others -- most of you have seen that galaxy shot James posted, of Floyd's huge game sole-survivor win).

Now, my definition of show-stopper may not be the same as IG's. But there are no un-fixed, reproducible, crash bugs, for example (the last one of those I knew of was pretty amusing, in terms of what it took to cause it; I'm amazed an external tester found it. Even knowing how to do it, I had trouble confirming it).