12-12-2002 02:22									#1
	Salt water tiles within the city radius of non coastal cities, useless? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Is there any way you can make salt water tiles within the city radius of a non coastal/non port city productive?

They just give one food two trade and you can't build harbors etc becuase the city isn't on the coast.

Is this just a type of tile that one should try to avoid placing in the city radius or is there some way to make them productive?

	12-12-2002 02:53									#2
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quote: Is this just a type of tile that one should try to avoid placing in the city radius?

Correct,
assuming you are the type that insists that your cities grow to 20+.

Though there may be other considerations to make you want to put it there anyway.

	12-12-2002 03:39									#3
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In the early game they are useless, but since your cities can't yet have grown so big, you can easily avoid to work on these tiles. Later in the game, with irrigation and railroads, food ain't an issue anymore. Work on them, let an irrigated grassland compensate the loss of food and enjoy the gold the tile gives.

	12-12-2002 03:42									#4
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Still, with PTW it's even worse than before, since you can't even get the trade bonus from commercial docks.

I hate getting into situations where I have to build such cities, but I do if I have to. Hey, at least those tiles are better than tundra.

	12-12-2002 05:24									#5
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Ok thanks, thats what I thought, I've been avoiding these types of tiles, but recently i had to build a city in an otherwise good spot with one of these tiles in it (strategic reasons) so I was just wondering if there was anything to do for it.

Oh and I have to say I really dont mind 2-3 squares of tundra in the city radius, I just forest them. Admittedly, after railroad forests are no longer a real competative source of minerals, but they aren't that horrible either, and in the early game they are quite decent.

	12-12-2002 05:37									#6
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Those tiles do produce a minimum of 2 trade without improvement, which is sometimes relevant.


Dominae

	12-12-2002 19:57									#7
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quote: Originally posted by alexman Still, with PTW it's even worse than before, since you can't even get the trade bonus from commercial docks. I hate getting into situations where I have to build such cities, but I do if I have to. Hey, at least those tiles are better than tundra.

How many tiles do you need worked to pay the upkeep cost on the commercial docks?

	12-12-2002 19:59									#8
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It depends on the corruption in the city, but if there is no corruption, 2. If there is 50% corruption, 4, et cetera.

	12-12-2002 22:00									#9
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I avoid like the plague building cities that are 2 tiles from sea water. (Occansionly I might build such a city with 2 such tiles, but that's it.)

As for Tundra, all cities I found in Tundra are along the coast, with a high priority to build the Harbor. Such cities will grow once that is built and generate commerce that is reinvested rushing everything with cash on the cities, especally things like Market Place, Banks, (and in PTW: Commercial Docks). In the modern era though, with the discovery of Miniturazation, after the Off Shore Oil Platform is rushed, the city becomes productive. Amount of resources (bonus & luxary) found in the tundra-coastal city will determine how many tundra tiles get worked.