17-12-2002 13:17									#31
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I'm hoping you meant this to be as funny as it sounds…

quote: Knock on Wood somehow disappeared whil I wasn't paying attention

I notice you also weren't paying attention and founded a city that you didn't include in the log. We shall have to deduct points for that. At least we won't be grading on spelling or typing.

Anyway, 4 cities by -3k is great! Keep it up and found a new city every 10 turns or so throughout the game. The Mongols were #1 and they had 30 cities in 1930 (turn #330). You'll find that 30-40 cities is big enough to kick butt, yet not a headache to manage. There are many reasons adding new cities throughout the ages.

quote: exploration by AT #2 reveals that both a whale and fish just out of reach.

This is pretty much always the case. Huts are always 2 tiles NE or SW from a special, right next to a "sweet spot." Advanced Tribe is 2 tiles NE of a Spice and AT #3 is 2 tiles NE of a Buffalo. Which brings me to one of my favorite topics:

quote: Bored Engineers go on a railroading frenzy.

Hidden Specials are what your Settlers and Engrs can do with spare time. Mining a hill gets you 3 shields. But changing grass into Silk gives you 2 shields and 3 precious arrows—taking 10 turns instead of 15. The benefits in the early game are big.

How do you know if there is a hidden special? They occur in somewhat predictable patterns, which I think of as 1-3-3-1 and 2-4-2 groups (actually one pattern rotated 90°). Here is an example of a 1-3-3-1 group showing known specials (pink) and predicted hidden ones (yellow). See the recent Hidden Specials thread and The Sticky Mouse Senate #259 and #272-274 for more examples.

	17-12-2002 14:57									#32
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Great work Gravy - the first time buzz is wonderful!!

SG[1]

	18-12-2002 01:20									#33
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Thanks all for the continued advice. Now I just need my first conquest win

Gravy

	18-12-2002 01:27									#34
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You'll need more cities for conquest... The SG's can give you competing advice on the benefits of celebrating Communism or celebrating Fundamentalism for conquest... both are really good.

@Straybow.... I like the unit graphics, where did you get them?

	18-12-2002 16:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Gravy Smoothie Thanks all for the continued advice. Now I just need my first conquest win Gravy

The SG are online....I give it 5 minutes before the crooks and clads are enthusiastically endorsed.

	18-12-2002 16:44									#36
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Nice game!

HG would probably have helped more than Colossus (WLTKD in Monarchy = extra productivity), allowing to hold on building temples a bit and less lux needed for celebration. Did you have aqueducts ready for every city when you celebrated them up?
Communism is great for spying. However, you lose lots of science compared with Demo. Considering you were behind in tech, your choice of government was judicious, but you shouldn't need communism in a space win.
For conquest, however, communism and fundy are really helpful (and so is Democracy, but mostly for its wonder).

	19-12-2002 02:18									#37
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quote: @Straybow.... I like the unit graphics, where did you get them?

From Th0mas in CIV 2 - Like a pair of comfortable old slippers

	19-12-2002 02:44									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow quote: @Straybow.... I like the unit graphics, where did you get them? From Th0mas in CIV 2 - Like a pair of comfortable old slippers

Thanks.... and thanks ThOmas - I'll d/l them when I get home

	19-12-2002 09:30									#39
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Just right-click on the gif and "save as" to the appropriate location.

	19-12-2002 10:23									#40
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@ Straybow--

Presumably this would be the ticket if I wanted to replace the entire set of gifs. Yes??

How would I replace a single gif, eg: tank??

Thanks

	19-12-2002 15:09									#41
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Monk - it's fairly easy if you have a decent graphics package like Paint Shop Pro - if you haven't you will have to get someone like me to have a go - the process is as follows:

• d/l and "save as" the whole set
• select the item(s) you require
• open your units.gif file in the same package
• carefully copy the rectangle that contains the entire "civ square" of a desired unit and cut and paste that rectangle precisely from the new file into your units.gif file in the exactly corresponding position
• save and play

	20-12-2002 01:04									#42
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Mmmm. Nice graphics... although it's kind of hard to see the strength bar on some of them. And the alpine troops unit is practically invisible on a mountain! Camouflage??

It doesn't help that in my test game the AI is giving me a run for my money

	20-12-2002 01:19									#43
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BMonk: Keeping in mind that "the entire rectangle" includes the green lines w/blue shield position dots above and to the left… corrected as necessary.

STYOM: Max zoom in helps. I usually don't use Fighters unless they're nearly full strength. As long as you can see more than a smidge of green it's OK. Bombers' strength bar is totally obscured… haven't had to use 'em so far.

	20-12-2002 03:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Monk - it's fairly easy if you have a decent graphics package like Paint Shop Pro - if you haven't you will have to get someone like me to have a go - the process is as follows:[list] Enjoy SG[1]

Thanks SG[1]. Unfortunately, I don't have the required tools or I would follow your excellent instructions.

I would only ask you to have a go at changing out a few of these units -if- you were interested in using them yourself. Time for everyone is precious, especially this season of year. Have a Merry and a Happy!!

	20-12-2002 04:19									#45
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STYOM, you were right -- it does get easier.

Scored my second win today, and this one gave me the buzz more than the first. Where, in my first win I clawed my way to the top (and would not have won if the Aztecs had not foolishly gifted Superconductor to me), this one was more comfortable.

I did many, many things better in this game, and while I didn't log it, here's a short synopsis:

ended with 17 cities (had 16 until the last turn, then jacked a Persian city with a spy.)

I went through three growth cycles, one after I built Mike's and then shifted to Republic, one after I had built Aqueducts and went Demo, and one after building Sewers.

Although I was behind in tech around 1870 (Darwin's was built while I was researching Physics), I hit 4-turn advances after my second growth cycle, 3-turn advances after my third (with +400 gold/turn), and 2-turn advances after putting Superhighways up in most of my cities (with +700 gold/turn). It's very easy to draw the conclusion with 20-25 cities, 1-turn advances are not hard to attain, even on Deity.

Took some time to build up defenses everywhere (3 Mech Infantry, City Walls, Coastal Fortresses) which REALLY helped later

I put off Space Flight till I had the resources to build Apollo in a few turns, and as soon as I got Space Flight the Persians and Greeks both jacked it. I already had researched all the prereqs for Plastics, Superconductor and Fusion by this point. Four turns later, I had Plastics and Superconductor, these were also stolen (next time when I build my defenses, I'll put a spy in each city as well.) I dropped my Science to 0 when Fusion Power was imminent, stored up a bunch of cash and continued building my ship at as frenzied a pace as I could. Greeks launched a 15/6/1/1/1 before me, but no worries: I launched a 33/16/1/1/1 in time enough to beat them by ten years.

Went through wars with the Greeks and Persians off and on until the end of the game, losing maybe 3 or 4 mech infantry to 40 or 50 enemy units, and jacking a Persian city right at the end.

THIS I consider my first real win, but not my last

Gravy

	20-12-2002 04:22									#46
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One more thing -- where I acquired maybe 35-40 techs in my first win from other civs in some fashion, this was only true for 12-20 techs this game, and I could have easily researched many more at the end of the game, but I kept Science at 0 even after Fusion so I had the liberty to build stuff.


Oh yeah, my score was 746, my Power Rating 96%, and I shared the top line of the Powergraph with the Greeks.

And here's the 1929 A.D. save, one turn before I land on Alpha Centauri.

Gravy

Attachment: cu_a1929.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	20-12-2002 05:08									#47
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Ready for conquest now? If you are not interested in conquest, consider OCC. I think you are going to spend endless hours playing Civ2... as everyone on these boards.

	20-12-2002 06:57									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Thanks SG[1]. Unfortunately, I don't have the required tools or I would follow your excellent instructions.

JASC software provides a trial version of Paint Shop Pro at there site for your needs...
http://www.jasc.com/download_3.asp

	20-12-2002 08:15									#49
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Thanks, Cedric!!

Very helpful lead. I'll check it out and give it a go.

	20-12-2002 08:17									#50
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There is also software called Gimp. See this Freeciv graphics thread for links, etc.

	20-12-2002 08:25									#51
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Thanks Straybow!!

What is best choice of tool for a "bloody monk," that is, a 10 thumbed novice?? I'm thinking ease of use

	20-12-2002 08:38									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Gravy Smoothie Although I was behind in tech around 1870 (Darwin's was built while I was researching Physics), I hit 4-turn advances after my second growth cycle, 3-turn advances after my third (with +400 gold/turn), and 2-turn advances after putting Superhighways up in most of my cities (with +700 gold/turn). It's very easy to draw the conclusion with 20-25 cities, 1-turn advances are not hard to attain, even on Deity.

That's how I started to win, too. But it's even easier to get 1-turn advances by shipping 6-8 Caravans per turn. AND, those 1-turn advances come with 1000s of gold as well!

quote: Took some time to build up defenses everywhere (3 Mech Infantry, City Walls, Coastal Fortresses) which REALLY helped later

Unless you're sharing a continent, some high quality ships will save you the trouble of building that much in the way of defence. The best defence is an offence. Cruisers, Battleships, and a few mobile defenders at home, and you won't need more than 1 static defender per city.

quote: Four turns later, I had Plastics and Superconductor, these were also stolen (next time when I build my defenses, I'll put a spy in each city as well

Don't bother with the Spy defence. The AI can automatically steal any tech it needs to build a spaceship. Spies will help prevent theft at other times, but they do nothing to protect your space techs.


Good work

	20-12-2002 12:11									#53
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.. and a further thought for you Gravy - caravans, WoWs and SpaceShip parts are interchangable without loss so stock up those caravans use them to build a vacant wonder and shift production to the required SS part - much cheaper than trying to buy them.

Build caravans and then more caravans and when you have enough, build caravans...

Now for conquest - Crooks and Clads and rule the world

SG[1]

	20-12-2002 12:13									#54
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... Oh and for tech protection try having an awake spy in your border cities - they see two squares and can normally spot the intruding Dip before they make their snatch

SG[1]

	20-12-2002 18:15									#55
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NOW you're getting it, Gravy. Very respectable score, too. Way to go!!!!


Yeah, keeping spies (esp. in fortresses) in border cities helps prevent theft bigtime.

I would suggest you start thinking in terms of 30-40 cities. When you're ready to build your SS, you can do so in just a couple turns with a massive frieightl-building program.

I typically do very little tech-stealing and am usually well ahead on techs by endgame. This is in part due to an isolationist approach to SS games. I stake out my territory, rid the continent of any pesky civs, and only explore enough to maintain a steady supply of overseas trade routes. (2-continent trading with my own cities is needed as well.) Find distant choke points, take them, and backfill new cities throughout the land. Once this is established, border cities concentrate on "exploratory defense" (scout for coming incursions with spies and ships) while core cities are built into shield and arrow machines. Usually use Democracy + Trade to maximize techs.

I've gone to AC without even meeting all the rival civs.

	21-12-2002 11:25									#56
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Congrats Gravey!!! And it just keeps getting better and better.

People have given you many good points to consider...build more cities, build/deliver more caravans for example.

I want to echo Straybow's point about uncovering hidden specials. Check out the SG[1] thread on the Strategy Board, "Gits' Hut and Special Finder" or the links Straybow pointed to. Once you get the picture, you can mine some of that plentiful grassland to change it to a more productive forest special, silk or pheasant (irrigates to bison). Early in the game the extra shields and arrows (if silk) are key to faster growth.

For example look at Tara, tile (73,79). If you go back among your .sav files when it is size 5 and mine that tile you'll see a special pop out there. Think about the cumulative effect of those extra shields and arrows (silk) throughout time.

Another example is your capital at (79,107). Also, the wheat at Caernarfon could have been mined to silk after harbors were available for no food loss but a big effect on the value of those trade routes.

On the subject of trade, did you know that you have three cities that could be supplying the very valuable Uranium??

So many new ideas!! The important thing is to have fun; and we all acknowledge that you got a win without using any of this. Over time you'll find the things that you like to do in 'your' gameplay. Here's to you...

	21-12-2002 11:37									#57
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SG[1], Straybow, Cedric,

Thanks for the advice about changing units.gif images. I followed Cedric's lead and got a Paint Shop Pro trial. Unfortunately it was ...a trial...and I am found guilty of incompetance. Oh, well.... But the originals have worked fine all these years so I'm going back to playing. Humility is good for a monk.

	22-12-2002 23:49									#58
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Hey, quick question.

I'm still having trouble putting up sufficient early defense. My new habit has been to put a warrior and a phalanx in each city I build, but I find that my phalanxes will not regularly put up even with relatively weak attack units. I've lost vet phalanxes to regular chariots, etc. and it's been causing my problems early game, especially when I spawn relatively near other civs. Ideas?

Gravy

	23-12-2002 00:52									#59
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Gravy S,

A Vet unit has its defense increased 50%, rounded down. So a vet phalanx defends -v- a chariot at 3:3. The chariot should win half the time.

So that's why it may be better to attack first, or, to defend at a distance.

Roads between your cities and vet horsies work well, especially against Barbs. Also, losing a unit in the field wont cost you a population point as happens if you sit in your cities and lose on defense.

Build forts and hold them with a good defense unit and an attack unit. The AI will usually go after your fort. If it is well placed your cities wont be bothered.

Hope that is helpful.

	23-12-2002 05:05									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Gravy Smoothie I'm still having trouble putting up sufficient early defense. My new habit has been to put a warrior and a phalanx in each city I build, but I find that my phalanxes will not regularly put up even with relatively weak attack units. Gravy

During the early years the warrior is the main/cheap unit to maintain martial law. You will need the occasional horseman near frontiers or near/in cities prone to barb attacks. The barb archer has only a defence of 1 (not 2 as for the standard archer) so you must kill or be killed! It is useful to choose a city with a high shield output in which to build a barracks. Vet horsemen will see off most attackers so long as you have first strike capability.

--------------------------

SG(2)