12-12-2002 10:45									#1
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We found a Neu Demogyptica settler (which they must have gotten from a goody hut, since it's so soon) as 1st Warrior was exploring.

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	12-12-2002 10:48									#2
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I say attack it if we have a chance of capturing it before they can build a city or retreat. We'd get 2 workers and they would take a rather large hit.

	12-12-2002 12:54									#3
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We'd also make a rather large enemy, but it could be worth it.

	12-12-2002 14:59									#4
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More analysis: as you say, they probably got the settler from a hut.

Demogyptica play the Arabs, which means they are expansionist. Therefore there are two realistic possibilities: either a warrior or a scout popped the hut.

If it's the warrior, he'll be defending that settler soon. If it is the scout, the settler will probably run away from us. Let's follow it, then (evil grin).

Interesting to note that we seem to have the same kind of choice as our possible enemies: shall we attack a weak point in our neigbour's Civ? The same kind of choice must be made to attack our REXing cities...

	12-12-2002 15:56									#5
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Interesting to note that we seem to have the same kind of choice as our possible enemies: shall we attack a weak point in our neigbour's Civ? The same kind of choice must be made to attack our REXing cities...

We could move our warrior to ambush their soon-to-be-built city and ask for a truce.

	12-12-2002 20:14									#6
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I say, set up an ambush, retreat into the hills one move, wait a turn, then move west and find their city and take it out.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

	12-12-2002 22:12									#7
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My take on the situation: we chase the settler down, and try to assume the control over that nice land for ourselves. Depending in which way he retreats, we'll be able to see where their home base is. Chances are very likely that it was the scout that popped that goody hut, so chances are he won't be defended either (probably a long ways from home).

	12-12-2002 22:34									#8
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They may not have built a warrior yet, if they're taking advantage of that Expansionist trait.

	12-12-2002 22:38									#9
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We can't assume they have no military. And anyways, by the time that we could muster up enough forces to squish them, they'd have units by then, either from pop-rushing, changing build queues, or anything.

	12-12-2002 23:02									#10
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Keep in mind, if they build a city with it and we then capture it, it will auto-raze and we won't get anything out of it.

	12-12-2002 23:22									#11
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But they'll lose a city.

	13-12-2002 04:00									#12
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We might get a gold

	13-12-2002 05:20									#13
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We lost gold actually. All 10 of them.

	13-12-2002 06:25									#14
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Its all over but the scenario was this:

We could have captured the settler: This yields the most immediate benefit. But that would lock us into war.

We could have razed the city, this is the least favorable. We probably would do this if they dont comply with our deal (They can still attempt escape while deal is being processed and cancel negotiation). We have barely any gains, but it deals huge losses on ND.

We can make peaceful decision that we might get an unevenly weighted deal out of. This is what is being done right now. We bought Warrior code for 10 gold (about 20 gold or more cheaper). And secured huge territory in exchange for promising the safety of their settler.

	13-12-2002 06:45									#15
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Tell me you aren't going to let them build a city on that hill!?!?!?!

ARGH!!!

	13-12-2002 06:52									#16
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Check out the last picture at the website... everything shaded red is land we can see deemed to be ours according to the agreement.

	13-12-2002 08:01									#17
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The good thing about Neu being the closest Civ is that they are also the least active in world diplomacy. We can annex them and few will care, at least relatively.

	13-12-2002 09:07									#18
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if we're gonna annex them, we should have just taken the settler. We are now prolly going for peaceful approach now.

	13-12-2002 10:12									#19
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We ought to just make them into a vassal type eventually. Going to war with them might be beneficial for the reason that Apoc stated, but it'll all depend upon how things end up occuring...

	13-12-2002 12:45									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II Its all over but the scenario was this: We can make peaceful decision that we might get an unevenly weighted deal out of. This is what is being done right now. We bought Warrior code for 10 gold (about 20 gold or more cheaper). And secured huge territory in exchange for promising the safety of their settler.

That is a VERY good outcome! Congratulations on your negotiation skills!

	13-12-2002 16:08									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Trip We ought to just make them into a vassal type eventually. Going to war with them might be beneficial for the reason that Apoc stated, but it'll all depend upon how things end up occuring...

They will never be our vassals. They expand faster than us with more settlers. WE will be their vassals.

	13-12-2002 17:38									#22
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It depends a bit. True - they now have an extra settler, but we have a sound expansion plan (just kidding). No - what we have as an advantage is that we are not expansionistic. That trait won't help them after the land has been divided. We are Industrious and Scientific, which means that our workers are twice as fast as theirs and that we will build settlers faster. And we can build libraries quicker, thus getting us an even greater tech lead.
We already claimed the grasslands west from us for ourselves. Let's settle it quickly, and see if they hold their part of the deal.

	13-12-2002 18:31									#23
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If you give me the tools...

Seriously, BFM is right. Industrious nations are never vassals!!! The NDE for reasons of their own have seeded control of a strategic and rich city location. If we build a city, now, on the hill on the river next to the plains, then that city will factor hugely in our long term goals of remaining unconquered, while doing a little conquering of our own

	13-12-2002 22:48									#24
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Things have again changed.

What I want most is the border agreement... sure Warrior Code would be nice, but techs will eventually rot in value and everyone will have them anyways. We have the most techs of any civilization in the world. We have little to fear in the technology arena until other civs start finding each other and trading.

However, a border agreement would give us a great sum of land without firing a shot. This would be a huge advantage, and give us a natural border (the mountains) that would be easy to defend, and good land within our borders (their former city site).

In re-negotiations, what I desire most is the border agreement... even if we'd have to GIVE UP something to get it. Right now, our only real advantage is that we were more aggressive diplomatically. They could easily retreat their settler back to their capital (as they've assuredly started doing), and bring forward an Archer or two, and boom, we're in a very bad situation, with little to negotiate for.

	15-12-2002 19:28									#25
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Yupp. Border negotiation is most important right now.

As expensionists they will have a larger population/production/army in the early game than us so we can't take anythign from them with force.

As expansionists they also will be very unpredictable. They MAY have a great advantage. Messing with them right now is like a kid playing with fire.