12-12-2002 10:49									#1
	What Do We Do With Neu Demogyptica? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We've found an undefended Neu Demogyptica settler. We have an oportunity to capture it, or destroy a potential city. Also, they might retreat it back, in which case we have no chance to capture it before it returns to a safer area. This thread is dedicated to consideration to what we ought to do. The save file has been stopped with us to make a decision.

Also, we can attempt to establish some kind of diplomatic relations with ND, and try to trade some techs. We got Pottery from the settler, so we have quite a few techs to bargain.

What should we do?

	12-12-2002 15:11									#2
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The land that the settler is on, is VERY good for building a (second) city. Let's try to get the settler out of the way, either by force or by diplomacy. If ND has good land available to them elsewhere, they might give in.

Proposal: contact them and try to trade techs. Also, try to include in the deal that they move their settler back to other realms. If it is indeed an unguarded settler, they might go for this.

Can we try to trade offline? That way, the completion of the trade takes only one turn.

I say: do not trade our map (is this even possible? I don't think so)

	12-12-2002 15:54									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

WAIT!!!!!!!! DON*T DO ANYTHING STUPID!!!

You're missing mayor point in you analysis: We can see the settler... the settler can't see us.

Wait and see:

If the settler moves closer. Attack.

If the settler builds a city where it is. Raze.

If the sttler moves away (higly unlikely). Secure the city site with the warrior.

	12-12-2002 17:16									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Interesting observation! Are we sure that it cannot see us?

	12-12-2002 19:03									#5
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect WAIT!!!!!!!! DON*T DO ANYTHING STUPID!!! You're missing mayor point in you analysis: We can see the settler... the settler can't see us.

Are you sure? I don't think that's possible, but I haven't seen the screenies yet.

[Edit] Yes, the settler can most certainly see us as well as we can see him[/Edit]

	12-12-2002 19:04									#6
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In any case, I say we take full advantage of the situation and bash that settler. They have no chance of retaliation and will be forced into secondrate civdom for the rest of the game.

	12-12-2002 19:20									#7
	Got spare money?

No, they would not. This settler is VERY probably an extra settler, so they would just be deprived of the contents of one goody hut.

I'm going to run some visibility tests tonight and find out whether we're being watched or not.

	12-12-2002 19:24									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster No, they would not. This settler is VERY probably an extra settler, so they would just be deprived of the contents of one goody hut. I'm going to run some visibility tests tonight and find out whether we're being watched or not.

I meant that WE will force them into secondrate civdom.

	12-12-2002 20:09									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The Settler should be able to see the hill we are on...he is on plains and we are on a hill, adjacent to his initial sight area (the box of terrain immediately adjacent to him and shared by our vision is also flat terrain.)

I say if diplomacy fails, then we take the settler/raze the city...maybe we should back up one square into the hills, wait a turn, then approach again. If he has built a city, then we take it out!

	12-12-2002 21:08									#10
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"What do we do With Neu Demogyptica?"

As in 'rare' or 'well done'?

	12-12-2002 22:17									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster The land that the settler is on, is VERY good for building a (second) city. Let's try to get the settler out of the way, either by force or by diplomacy. If ND has good land available to them elsewhere, they might give in. Proposal: contact them and try to trade techs. Also, try to include in the deal that they move their settler back to other realms. If it is indeed an unguarded settler, they might go for this. Can we try to trade offline? That way, the completion of the trade takes only one turn. I say: do not trade our map (is this even possible? I don't think so)

We should try to negotiate to assume control over the land. Chances are he's fairly far from home, since they probably popped the hut with their scout, and those things can move. If they were closer to home, then the settler would have had time to set up somewhere.

The settler can see us. We're on top of a hill, meaning you can see every hill adjacent to your sight range. He can see us and we can see him.

PJ, will you try to come up with some kind of diplomatic introduction letter to send to them? If you don't come up with one soon, I'll have to. We only have 24 hours to have the save, and about half of that is gone. If we wait too long then the Germans will be in bed again by the time we get something together.

	12-12-2002 23:49									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Options for diplomatic opener:

j/k

"All your settlers belong to us."
"Move or die!!!"
"Stay west, it's healthier for you."
"Oh look a settler! Just what I need to build those new roads!"

	12-12-2002 23:51									#13
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I'll keep those in mind when I PM Borc again after he replies.

	13-12-2002 02:54									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I say try to negotiatiate for them to move the settler. Also attempt to trade techs. I would prefer we not get into any kind of war right now. I think they will agree to move though, especially if it is an undefended settler. They wouldn't want to risk losing it

	13-12-2002 03:04									#15
	Support Apolyton

They start with Pottery and Ceremonial Burial, the two techs that we've gotten from goody huts. They might have gotten another tech from a goody hut, but it's doubtful. If they don't reply by the time I have to send the save file on, then it won't be too much of a loss... but I do want to send a message to them letting them know that we know where they are, and that they'd better move that settler.

	13-12-2002 03:18									#16
	Remove this text

I think they would comply. If they dont move their settler and settle, we're just gonna end up sacking the city and im sure they wouldnt want that either.

	13-12-2002 03:45									#17
	Got spare money?

See my latest post for my analysis under my hawkish poll.

Summary, we're mostly damned if we do and damned if we don't.

The NDE capital (it's been 8 turns, 8*2 moves by scout at max and 2 moves by settler) at most is 18 squares to the NW of the scout sighting. They're friggin' close!!! We need to tow hard on the diplomatic line with a decent show of force to show them where the border lies!!!! :doitnow:

	13-12-2002 05:18									#18
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As expected, NDE backed down, and we got the strong upper-hand in the agreement.

However... they still have a spare settler, and their strength might eclipse our own. Hopefully they will stay true to their agreement.

	13-12-2002 06:12									#19
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The more I think about it, the more victory it seems to be for ND as much as it is for us. HOWEVER. We avoided a big rep hit from either warmongering or extorting too much bribes... and that above all else probably costs the most at this point.

We did the best deal we can while keeping the peace. Had we taken a warmongering path, it would have been a too big of a risk. 2 Free slave is tempting, but we have bigger ambition than to conquer just a settler

Last edited by Zero on 13-12-2002 at 06:19

	13-12-2002 13:03									#20
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Warrior Code for 10 gold is a bargain!

	13-12-2002 20:29									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This was a good move, and in keeping with our neutral stance. Let it be known though, that if this were a SP game, I would have rode that Settler or ambushed its city!!!