12-12-2002 22:47									#31
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: It is not Star Trek,.. it's a comment at religion vs science and who is right.

sorry
Let me explain


My IQ is not as high as some of you guys.

simple mind, simple words and explanations please

	12-12-2002 22:50									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: However, the level of assumption goes through the roof when God is introduced. It's a hugely important distinction to make.

thanks
Thats it!!!!!!

	12-12-2002 22:53									#33
	Tired of ads?

Hey, someone agrees with me for once!

	12-12-2002 22:55									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The way I think is GOD did this now how was it done rather than the scientist who thinks GOD did not do this as it is "random chance".


Why is it so hard for a scientist to admitt that there may be a ouside influince?

	12-12-2002 22:56									#35
	Tired of ads?

quote: So a scientist CAN except thing that cannot be seen?

Like atoms? Yes.

But it helps if there's some evidence that they exist. Or (in the case of black holes) that their likely existence can be deduced from known physical principles.

For instance, current theories suggest that a star above a certain size which "burns out" will collapse in on itself under gravity until the particles it's made of are scrunched together (a white dwarf): below that size, it will just be a ball of slowly-cooling gases (a black dwarf). Above a certain size (Chandrasekhar's Limit), the pressure will cause the electrons and protons to fuse into neutrons. The resultant ball of neutrons can't collapse any further, so a "neutron star" is formed.

If the star was bigger than that, the neutrons will be crushed and nothing known will resist the pressure, hence it will be crushed right down to a point surrounded by an intense gravitational field (a black hole).

Scientists have detected X-ray emissions consistent with what's expected from matter spiralling down into black holes, but they can't be sure that the ultra-dense object in the middle was crushed all the way to make a black hole: maybe it's something smaller and denser than a neutron star, but still blocked from crushing by some other force we don't know about yet. Though, if it's bigger than the event horizon of a black hole, I suppose there ought to be emissions from infalling matter actually hitting the thing.

	12-12-2002 23:01									#36
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What Zkribbler said. Nothing science has found in any way indicates their is or isn't a God. Personal statements to the effect of "I know God exists because I feel his presence in my life" are meaningless, as people often feel things that aren't real. Black Holes = science God = faith

Have you ever seen the effects of a black hole Boris. Or do you take the word of people you dont know that have written about it in books and articles.

I'm sure you will say that's different because it's scientific and that those people have went to school and done all this work but in the end it comes down to you taking their word for it. You have faith that they know what they are talking about and that they will truthfully report what they find.

	12-12-2002 23:02									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Going back to the black hole:

how can a black hole suc up so much matter and not git any bigger in mass?

I understand the black hole but the idea of all this matter just dissapering from the equation bothers me.

Stars and planets and GOD knows what else falls into a black hole but the black hole does not git any bigger or say collect anymore mass?

I guess my question is Where does all the matter go?

	12-12-2002 23:09									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Going back to the black hole: how can a black hole suc up so much matter and not git any bigger in mass? I understand the black hole but the idea of all this matter just dissapering from the equation bothers me. Stars and planets and GOD knows what else falls into a black hole but the black hole does not git any bigger or say collect anymore mass? I guess my question is Where does all the matter go?

I suggest you read Steven Hawkin's book, A Breif History of Time.

Basicly, it's pull so great, that it can increase in mass, but it's still a singularity. However, it's gravitational pull increases. As well as the event horizon.

	12-12-2002 23:09									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

This remides me of that SW monie about the clones:
Yoda explains the simple mind of a child.

My simple mind can understand some things where the intellect cannot

The problem is trying to put it to words

	12-12-2002 23:10									#40
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I admire Hawkins but we speak two different languges

	12-12-2002 23:17									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have allways wished I had been born smart but if being smart closes my mind to the idea of GOD then I rather just stay simple minded.

	12-12-2002 23:17									#42
	Remove this text

Singularity = "just a dot". With nothing to stop the crushing, it shrinks to an infinitely tiny point.

Event Horizon = the area where the gravity becomes too great for even light to escape. As the speed of light is the ultimate "speed limit", nothing that happens inside the event horizon can move fast enough to escape and affect the rest of the Universe: hence, a "horizon" for "events" inside.

Think of the event horizon as the "black ball" which is shown in Sci-Fi films.

	12-12-2002 23:20									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That makes no cents.

To crush matter into infinit smallness?

	12-12-2002 23:22									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That is what happens right?

	12-12-2002 23:24									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood I have allways wished I had been born smart but if being smart closes my mind to the idea of GOD then I rather just stay simple minded.

So that's what happened.

	12-12-2002 23:25									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

matter cannot occupy the same space twice? or what ever it is, I understand.

So all this matter is being compressed into tinyness?

I think that there is something going on here that is not known or cannot be explained as of yet.

	12-12-2002 23:26									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: So that's what happened.

Not by choice

	12-12-2002 23:28									#48
	Suffering from ads?

Why is it that when my simple mind comes up with a "wrench in the machine" everybody runs away?

	12-12-2002 23:41									#49
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood matter cannot occupy the same space twice? or what ever it is, I understand. So all this matter is being compressed into tinyness? I think that there is something going on here that is not known or cannot be explained as of yet.

Okay, let me try to make this easier. Take a balloon and cut a square out of it. Now lay it flat. Let this piece of balloon be the universe WITHOUT up or down. Now take you're fingure and pull underneth.

You just made a dent in the universe. All stars and planets have a dent like this. You know how water turns as it goes down the sink? Well, the same thing happens to the stars and planets. They spin around this dent like water.

Now take a pencil or pen and make a hole in this universe. Then take the universe and pinch it together so that the hole is closed. This a black hold, a REALY big dent in the universe. There is no space and no time in a Black Hole. So matter can occupy the same at the same time.

	12-12-2002 23:41									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Have you ever seen the effects of a black hole Boris. Or do you take the word of people you dont know that have written about it in books and articles. I'm sure you will say that's different because it's scientific and that those people have went to school and done all this work but in the end it comes down to you taking their word for it. You have faith that they know what they are talking about and that they will truthfully report what they find.

Not quite the same thing. First, when I read about scientific explanations for black holes, it makes rational sense to me based on science. Also, these men use extremely detailed scientific formulae and support their conclusions with them. That right there is more support than one can find for creationism. There findings are also peer-reviewed, which is a merciless guantlet of criticism designed to tear down any theory that has holes in it (no pun intended).

Is it 100% black holes exist? No, as the phenomena witnessed may be explained by magic or something we've yet to discover. But for what we know of science and the universe, it is a logical conclusion. No such logical conclusion could be made for the magical God.

	12-12-2002 23:44									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood The way I think is GOD did this now how was it done rather than the scientist who thinks GOD did not do this as it is "random chance". Why is it so hard for a scientist to admitt that there may be a ouside influince?

Very few scientists would say with any certainty that "God did not do this," as such a thing is unprovable as God doing it. Rather, they would simply try to find out as much as possible about how it happened through science. For things that remained unexplained, they will make hypotheses about how it happened. Nothing there excludes the potential for God to exist.

God is useless, however, to scientists. So really it is a moot point to even bring God into the equation.

	13-12-2002 00:01									#52
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood So a scientist CAN except thing that cannot be seen?

Choose your words carefully. Air cannot be seen, and yet we know it's there.

	13-12-2002 00:03									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: God is useless, however, to scientists. So really it is a moot point to even bring God into the equation.

Yep

	13-12-2002 00:04									#54
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Air cannot be seen, and yet we know it's there.

Oh really?

	13-12-2002 00:06									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Yep

Why the sad face? That's exactly how science should be.

	13-12-2002 00:08									#56
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If a scientist admitts to beleiving in GOD are they looked down on by there peers?

	13-12-2002 00:09									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Stars and planets and GOD knows what else falls into a black hole but the black hole does not git any bigger or say collect anymore mass?

Who says it doesn't get any bigger? The more mass that falls into a black hole, the larger the event horizon gets. We just don't know, and probably can't ever know, what happens to anything beyond the event horizon, because no information comes back, hence, black hole.

	13-12-2002 00:13									#58
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood If a scientist admitts to beleiving in GOD are they looked down on by there peers?

Not necessarily. Many scientists believe in a God. That doesn't make them right.

	13-12-2002 00:14									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Oh really?

Really. Or are you going to try and convince me that either you can see air or air doesn't exist?

	13-12-2002 00:14									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: If a scientist admitts to beleiving in GOD are they looked down on by there peers?

There are a whole lot of scientists who believe in God. Especially physicists, it seems. I actually find it a tad surprising. They would probably be laughed at if they said they were creationists, though.

-Arrian