13-12-2002 02:53									#1
	Adam Smith Foundation: Prepare to Lower Sci. Slider Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

IMHO, once we've obtained Sci. Method (so that we can build ToE), Electronics (for Hoover's) and possibly Motorized Transport. (if we decide that we want to go to war again very soon and that we want tanks), and have conquered or at least significantly restrained Germany, we'll be able to safely lower the science slider to ~40% while keeping a tech lead.
The idea behind this is that what matters is not our absolute rate of research, but our relative rate of research, so as long as we have a safe tech lead, there's little point in racing forward in research when we can rather use our income to modernize our cities and our armies faster.
With the funds that we'll release, we'll be able to introduce new improvements to our cities and new units to our ranks much faster!

I think some discussion of this issue is in order.

	13-12-2002 03:04									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


Not yet, not untill we get a bunch of research labs up. Yep I'm talking modern ages.

Why?

Once we eliminate germany the other civs will pay us hand over fist for our techs.

To maintain military superioity, we do not want any civ to have tanks untill we have mech infantry. We do not want them to have mech infantry until we have modern armor.

I say that we do not target a slider %. We should target reseach times instead. If 30% gets us a tech in 7 turns, 40% gets us a tech 5 turns and we need 80% to get it in 4 turns, I would begin to see it your way. It does become a lot of income for only 1 turn tech diference.

Again I say target research times and set the slider accordingly.

Mss

[edit] added smilies fo good naturedness

	13-12-2002 03:13									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

In general, I agree with Shiber, a think tank himself ( ).
But in this case, ManicStarSeed seems to be pretty right.

	13-12-2002 03:30									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Let's see how many turns the Theory of Evolution is from completion once we have Scienfic Theory.

It's possible that we might want to RAISE the science slider when that happens to discover an additional tech before it completes.

However, once the last tech we've finished researching prior to completion of Theory of Evolution, then the science slider should be set to 0 until completion whiich will give the new DM some money for completion of pre-builds to the Iron Works.

But right afterwords, we should increase the science rate to the max effective rate, which we'll easily be able to afford by techwhoring one of the two techs the Theory of Evolution gives us for free.

	13-12-2002 03:49									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I agree with ManicStarSeed. We want as big a tech lead as possible, at least until we have Mech. Infantry and Modern Armor.

Also, remember that we'll have more commerce once hospitals start coming on line. That'll mean more money, more research, more everything.

BTW, Shiber, congratulations on starting the first (and likely last) Adam Smith thread of the term.

	13-12-2002 03:50									#6
	Remove this text

Exactly, joncnunn

	13-12-2002 04:04									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed Once we eliminate germany the other civs will pay us hand over fist for our techs.

I predict that after we whore a few techs they won't have enough cash or gpt left to pay for our techs anymore that would justify keeping the slider at a high rate. Of course, we should wait and see if my prediction is correct.

I support the idea of creating a technological gap though, but I believe that with the help of ToE we can create such a gap without keeping the slider at 60%-70% throughout the industrial age. Soon we'll be able to lower the slider to 50%, and ultimately 40% and 30%. Keep in mind though that 50% of our current income is significantly less than 50% of our income after we conquer Germany and after we get tons of gpt from whoring the next two or three techs that we get first. I'm talking about lowering the science slider after all this happens.
Also keep in mind that the money that we'll save by lowering the science slider can be used to rush additional universities, and ultimately research centers, and this is the true way forward IMHO.

	13-12-2002 04:17									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Shiber I predict that after we whore a few techs they won't have enough cash or gpt left to pay for our techs anymore that would justify keeping the slider at a high rate. Of course, we should wait and see if my prediction is correct.

I expect that your prediction is correct, but that is why we should begin to space out our trades a little more, waiting for existing deals to expire. Once the 20 turns are up, we an trade again for more.

Also, the AI still will have a few luxuries that we will need.

Large Tech leads also make obtaining alliances much easier.. without jeapodizing our large tech lead. Like "hey we will give you mobilized transport for an alliance against rome and russia" type thing.

I agree that backing off of tech MIGHT be in order, but not before computers has been researched.

Again I repeat..." Target tech aquisition to 4-6 turns, not Slider position" Caveat... No deficit spending of course.

Mss