13-12-2002 03:55									#1
	Project: The Return Home Increase the size of your Attachments

The acquisition of the technology of Steam Power marked the introduction of the greatest and final land improvement in the game - railroads.
Soon, our entire empire will be railroaded. After a few other improvements are made there will be no further need for workers in our current territory. Soon we will conquer German lands, and maybe get some more lands in other ways (culture flips, perhaps) and we'll want to bring these new territories up to our standards in terms of land improvements.
However, once we're done with this task, our workers will be idle for quite some time, unless we're planning another invasion very soon after the German war.
Now, I have no problem with slaves idling around because they don't cost us money, but domestic workers do cost maintenance, and it'll be a pain watching them idling and waiting for new territories that need improving to be conquered while they could do much more good inside cities.

So basically, the idea is this: soon there will be no work for our workers except for in newly-conquered territories because there will be nothing left to improve in our own territories. Allowing our workers to sit idly would be plain wasteful, and therefore I suggest that we gradually allow our domestic workers to join cities with hospitals and work as part of the urban population until we can completely depend on slaves as our public works force.
I suggest that we begin this project after the German territories that we'll conquer are improved to the maximum. I also suggest that we stop building domestic workers, because we'll join them back to their cities soon enough if the senate approves this project (don't worry, we'll get plenty of slaves from Germany ).

What are your opinions?

	13-12-2002 04:09									#2
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This is a really good idea. Does anybody know how this will affect the other civ's attitude torwards us?.

I know civs hate it when you have slaves of their nationality.

Also the more workers you have the larger your military appears to the other civs. The workers are included in the "we have a *BLANK* military compared to them" calculaion.

Other than that... anything else....?

So I say, yes lets join our workers into the german cities we will bomb to size 1

Mss

	13-12-2002 04:19									#3
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quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed Also the more workers you have the larger your military appears to the other civs. The workers are included in the "we have a *BLANK* military compared to them" calculaion.

I had no idea. Are you sure about this?

	13-12-2002 04:22									#4
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Yep, check Vel's strategy thread-part 3, I believe. maybe part 2. Its in the strategy forum.

Mss

	13-12-2002 04:38									#5
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Not only after we have hospitals, but even now to bring some cities up closer to the size 12 boundry. This was already hinted at in the opening of the
Otto, we will bury you ....... thread.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=70039

Once there is railroad linkeup, there is no utility of workers above what is needed to keep tile development ahead of pop. We achieved this long ago.

	13-12-2002 04:46									#6
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And pollution cleanup

	13-12-2002 04:53									#7
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I think we shoud emancipate those slaves. I hate the idea of slavery, even in a game.

Sure, it makes economic sence. BUT MORALLY IT IS WRONG!!!!

Lets add a couple of Morals here, shall we.

GK

	13-12-2002 05:41									#8
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Ah morals. I remember the good old days when eewolf tried to input 'ethics' in the DemoGame.
I'm all for this plan, even if I think we should eventually integrate these slaves in our cities, and replace them by domestic workers when we won't have anything else than pollution to manage.
The reasoning behind this is :

- I don't like slaves, who are inefficient workers (2 to 4 times slower), while they are as good laborers as nationals.
- A foreign laborer can bring money, food and shields, and hence more than pays the upkeep of the domestic worker who replace them.

	13-12-2002 06:09									#9
	Re: Project: The Return Home Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Shiber So basically, the idea is this: soon there will be no work for our workers except for in newly-conquered territories because there will be nothing left to improve in our own territories. Allowing our workers to sit idly would be plain wasteful, and therefore I suggest that we gradually allow our domestic workers to join cities with hospitals and work as part of the urban population What are your opinions?

Shiber this runs VERY parallel to the designs of the Labor Party. Perhaps you may be interesting in joining...?

	13-12-2002 06:41									#10
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Got a lot of catching up to do. Still reading old threads. Can't join yet. Must use fragmented sentences.
I'll let you know as soon as I finish reading the labor-related threads and think about it, though.

	13-12-2002 07:03									#11
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Good points Spiffor

Mss

	13-12-2002 07:41									#12
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We still have a fair amount of Jungle left to clear, although it could be done by the end of next term, it might be likely.

We also have a fair amount of Mountains to Road, Mine & Rail (some only need the Road). I don't anticipate that these things will be complete unto towards the end of the next term.

E_T

	13-12-2002 07:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing I think we shoud emancipate those slaves. I hate the idea of slavery, even in a game. Sure, it makes economic sence. BUT MORALLY IT IS WRONG!!!! Lets add a couple of Morals here, shall we. GK

Agreed, for moral reasons.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Ah morals. I remember the good old days when eewolf tried to input 'ethics' in the DemoGame. I'm all for this plan, even if I think we should eventually integrate these slaves in our cities, and replace them by domestic workers when we won't have anything else than pollution to manage. The reasoning behind this is : - I don't like slaves, who are inefficient workers (2 to 4 times slower), while they are as good laborers as nationals. - A foreign laborer can bring money, food and shields, and hence more than pays the upkeep of the domestic worker who replace them.

Agreed, for economic reasons.

It's so good when moral and money walk together...
Unfortunately, this is very rare...

	13-12-2002 09:42									#14
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Efficientize the workers

(is that a word???)

	13-12-2002 10:08									#15
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I fully agree with Spiffor... this should be integrated into the party platform for the coming term...

	13-12-2002 12:32									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I fully agree with Spiffor... this should be integrated into the party platform for the coming term...

Right on Spiffor, Instant platform.

Mss

	13-12-2002 22:50									#17
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I agree that building of domestic workers should stop now. (Except for any just being built to relocate populations, and also cases where building a worker enslaves the population.)

On massively returning doesmtic home, we're not quite ready for that yet, finish RRing every tile inside our cities CR inside our current territory not to close to the German frontier first. After that is done, then all the normal workers can be retired. Getting cities with Aquaducts (natural or improvement) up to 9 should be top priority followed by placing them in cities with hospitals where production would increase.

On the slaves, I think we should keep up to 48 slaves we have & acquire during the German war for polution control (44 on mainland, 4 on Uber Island), but the others can be set free by joining to cities. But I'd free the ones who have no homeland (France & America) first because we can be sure ones without a homeland will never call us to "stop the war against the mother country". Also, don't pick any border city as a place to free slaves.

	14-12-2002 03:32									#18
	Pollution Enter the AD-FREE zone

No one seems to have taken into account pollution? We will need to keep some workers around for pollution control. Any thoughts on this?

	14-12-2002 08:54									#19
	Re: Pollution Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit No one seems to have taken into account pollution? We will need to keep some workers around for pollution control. Any thoughts on this?

Both MSS (sorry MSS, but your name is just way too long to type ) and joncnunn have mentioned pollution. I think it's being taken as a given, at this point. The question is should we keep slaves or domestic, payed workers around to clean it up?

	14-12-2002 12:46									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Both MSS (sorry MSS, but your name is just way too long to type ) and joncnunn have mentioned pollution. I think it's being taken as a given, at this point. The question is should we keep slaves or domestic, payed workers around to clean it up?

Good God I'm observant. I was in a rush and quickly glanced through the thread. Obviously I skipped that part. :-/ Well thanks to this lesson, I now know how to use CTRL+F to find things in my browser

	14-12-2002 15:20									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

ATM we're fighting Rome, and we will enter war with Germany sooner or later, followed by either a war against England or Zululand (or both). We'll gain lots of slaves in the process, and I believe we'll have enough to take care of pollution.

	15-12-2002 00:54									#22
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hi ,

we should let some of those slaves join our civ , others could be sold , or given for free to the weakest of the other civ's , ........

have a nice day