13-12-2002 08:58									#1
	would invading Iraq have been such a bad idea Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Let's say Saddam wouldn't let the weapon inspectors in. A war on Iraq would have little support from the US public or the Europeans. Saddam is very evil and has made it clear he hates Americans and wants top take over the middle east. We'd have to fight him eventually (maybe not anymore though because of his recent actions. If we to invaded them and we did it now, we'd easily beat Saddam, for I doubt he has nukes or WOMD, and if he does he probably has very few. But if we did nothing and then attacked in 10 years, he'd probably have a larger army, and probably a lot of WOMD, and it a lot more lives would be lost.

This is just from a litttle different perspective. Heaven forbid, maybe America's president might actually do something that isn't that bad an idea

	13-12-2002 09:05									#2
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I highly doubt Bush will launch an invasion of Iraq. An invasion would require ground warfare, which would mean many American casualties (much more than the few dozens the US are used to now). I also don't think there is a well armed / well organized rebellion the US could boost to 'invade' Iraq in its place.
I don't recall any war with many US casualties since Vietnam (I may be wrong), but I'm sure the Americans really don't want to see American mothers mourn their boys who fell in this faraway land.

	13-12-2002 09:06									#3
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Invading Iraq is a horrible idea.

	13-12-2002 09:09									#4
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It's going to happen soon anyways

	13-12-2002 09:10									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident It's going to happen soon anyways

would have been the better smilie to use.

	13-12-2002 09:14									#6
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I am definitely not for fighting to solve problems but I'm saying we'll have to do it eventually, and if we do it now there'd be a whole lot less loss of life.

	13-12-2002 09:14									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident It's going to happen soon anyways

But who'll die in the process ? You can't be serious about having American casualties in a war, don't you ?

	13-12-2002 09:15									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor But who'll die in the process ? You can't be serious about having American casualties in a war, don't you ?

He has a weaker army than he did in Gulf War I.

	13-12-2002 09:16									#9
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Then again, so does the US

	13-12-2002 09:17									#10
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Of course we actually have to fight in Iraqi land. You can be sure they will fight harder for their own homes.

I suppose the PC answer would be I cannot support a war because there would be american/British and Iraqi casualties. I don't really have much control over what happens. But if it does happen we might as well do it right.

	13-12-2002 09:18									#11
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True, but his army can still kill soldiers. Don't forget air attacks can devastate all things about communications and such (making his army mostly harmless), but the soldiers down there will still have guns and mortars and such, and will still use them on American jeeps.
The kill ratio will be overwhelmingly in favor of the US, but I think Bush will lose considerable popularity if there are a mere 1000 American deaths (which is fairly possible in the invasion of a country this size, and with so many men serving)

	13-12-2002 09:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Then again, so does the US

Relative power, not absolute power matters more in this equation.

	13-12-2002 09:27									#13
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Strangely, city fighting neutralises the difference in technology.

	13-12-2002 09:33									#14
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Exactly UR ... last time we didn't have to go into cities, go house to house, clearing ground infantry that was dug in. And I doubt that the rest of the world would stand by and let the US bomb the cities causing massive civilian casualties.

It's a mistake to think that an invasion of Iraq would be a repeat of the Gulf War.

	13-12-2002 11:51									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Strangely, city fighting neutralises the difference in technology.

No, it doesn't. It may reduce that advantage, but night vision, GPS, and satellite guided bombs will all still carry considerable advantages.

Remember also that we are under no pressure to instantly take out any group that wants to dig itself in and continue resistance. We will control the supply routes, and we can determine who we want to attack and who we can bypass and starve.

	13-12-2002 11:57									#16
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1. Maybe the Bushies want to endrun the whole city issue by claiming the Iraqis mustard gassed some troops and then nuking their cities. Ordinarily I'd say doubtful, but with these idiots anything's possible.

2. Initially there will be huge support for a war, there always is. it's the fight at the hockey game when all the yahoos are screaming for blood. I'm sure Bushy will go to 95% approval with an invasion -- for a while.

3. It won't take long. This is an elephant crushing an egg.

	13-12-2002 12:02									#17
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we don't really need to take the cities. We just need to oust Saddam. I really don't think their military will fight much longer after that. And even then we can dictate the battlefield. Where we might run into problems is if the military either starves the cities or starts killing Iraqis. Then the U.S. will be forced to enter the cities. But other than that we really don't have to enter the cities. Except Baghdad to oust Hussein.

And I just had a bad thought. Hussein may use chemical weapons on his own cities and claim the U.S. was at fault. This could have dire consequences.

	13-12-2002 12:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I highly doubt Bush will launch an invasion of Iraq. An invasion would require ground warfare, which would mean many American casualties (much more than the few dozens the US are used to now)

How was it we wiped our asses with them last time?

quote: I also don't think there is a well armed / well organized rebellion the US could boost to 'invade' Iraq in its place. I don't recall any war with many US casualties since Vietnam (I may be wrong), but I'm sure the Americans really don't want to see American mothers mourn their boys who fell in this faraway land.

The real question isn't casualties, it's what kind of lackey will we install in place of Saddam, and how will we secure that lackey in power?

	13-12-2002 12:28									#19
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quote: The real question isn't casualties, it's what kind of lackey will we install in place of Saddam,

Saddam Mrk II an inproved version- the same dictator, but who kiss uncle Sam's ass and let you grab Iraqis oil, perhaps more cruel and opressive toward its own population then previous model.

quote: and how will we secure that lackey in power?

As you always do- bomb everyone who's disagreed to stone age.



Keep up the good work

	13-12-2002 13:00									#20
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I'm gonna essentially agree with Serb here

	13-12-2002 13:01									#21
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Nah, it can't be.

	13-12-2002 13:03									#22
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When it comes to opposing US action around the world, we probably agree on a lot

	13-12-2002 13:05									#23
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How many time it would take for us to turn this topic into another lend-lease fight?

	13-12-2002 13:07									#24
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I dunno. Not tonight, as I'm off to bed.

	13-12-2002 13:09									#25
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yeah, not today, because I'm going to have my lunch.

	13-12-2002 14:09									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Saddam Mrk II an inproved version- the same dictator, but who kiss uncle Sam's ass and let you grab Iraqis oil, perhaps more cruel and opressive toward its own population then previous model. As you always do- bomb everyone who's disagreed to stone age. Keep up the good work

We will. We're a successful empire. The USSR wasnt. Learn to live with that, and you'll be much happier.

	13-12-2002 14:33									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat We will.

It's good to see a citizen who is proud of his country government. (When its government is gonna murder hell knows how many thousands of people during oil conquest)

quote: We're a successful empire.

You are very young and unexperienced empire.

quote: The USSR wasnt.

It was, but it was very old and very tired empire.
Sooner or later your empire will die too. All empires are gone sooner or later and you are not the exception. This rule don't know exceptions.

quote: Learn to live with that, and you'll be much happier.

I doubt. Only brainless zombies could be happy in the world where uncle Sam decides who deserve to live and who must die.
I don't want to live in such world and I'm not alone who feel sick edit: nevermind...
At least Paiktis is with me.
Have a nice day.

	13-12-2002 14:35									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander No, it doesn't. It may reduce that advantage, but night vision, GPS, and satellite guided bombs will all still carry considerable advantages.

Night vision? Maybe useful, but not that useful. Besides, it's not exactly high tech. GPS? How does that help? Satellite guided bombs? In the middle of a city when you can't tell which soldier is on your side?

quote: Originally posted by Sikander Remember also that we are under no pressure to instantly take out any group that wants to dig itself in and continue resistance. We will control the supply routes, and we can determine who we want to attack and who we can bypass and starve.

I am not so sure. The daily operating costs for an invasion is very high. If you cut the supply routes, you are going to starve the civilians before affecting Iraqi troops.

	13-12-2002 14:45									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Night vision? Maybe useful, but not that useful. Besides, it's not exactly high tech.

The US and NATO are the only militaries to issue NV gear force wide, and our generation 3 stuff is a hell of a lot better than the crap the Iraqis have.

IFF signalling is also very useful.

quote: GPS? How does that help? Satellite guided bombs? In the middle of a city when you can't tell which soldier is on your side?

Arty. Plus force-wide issue of communications and GPS improves identification, location, and coherence of forward lines.

	13-12-2002 21:07									#30
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Serb, erm, the Soviet Union was a far younger state than the US.

If you mean RUSSIA is older than the US, that's fine, but Russia and the USSR aren't the same, as I'm sure you know