13-12-2002 11:34									#1
	Turn 11 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

3500 is here.

All scores 30. Lux and us 27.

	13-12-2002 11:52									#2
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What's a city worth in points? Do you know that?
(having found a sttler is even worse I guess, well we'll notice in a few turns, won't we)
Allthough LI becoming the early top-dog might not be such a bad thing.

	13-12-2002 11:54									#3
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Warrior complete. Calling him Hack, until I am told to name him something else.

EotStorm borders expand next turn. Moving Grog and Gronk to take this into account.

Grog moves 8. Sees another hill with incense (8) and mountain on river (6-6). More grass to the NW peeks out from beneath the blanket of blackness.

Gronk moves 2. Sees 3 more grass (2 with shields).

Hack moves 6. Nothing revealed.

	13-12-2002 11:55									#4
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F11 does not reveal much new.

Lego pop 2, all others pop 1.

Turn being sent. Shots taken and being sent.

	13-12-2002 12:00									#5
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 What's a city worth in points? Do you know that? (having found a sttler is even worse I guess, well we'll notice in a few turns, won't we) Allthough LI becoming the early top-dog might not be such a bad thing.

We would see an immediate uptick when they build a city. More than 1 point, I think. I will test.

I'm pretty sure they made contact with someone.

	13-12-2002 12:11									#6
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I see that the warmongers have changed their capitals name again. how nice. I wonder if they are going to do that the whole game.

	13-12-2002 12:25									#7
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I see that the warmongers have changed their capitals name again. how nice. I wonder if they are going to do that the whole game.

It does prove , that it is confusing, and that at some point it is worth considering doing it ourselves

With both cities and units........

	13-12-2002 12:27									#8
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 It does prove , that it is confusing, and that at some point it is worth considering doing it ourselves With both cities and units........

Units yes

cities, I don't know how useful it would be. Once we get their map, we will know what the cities are called, regardless of name changes. I suppose if we just have an embassy or spy, and thus the city list, it might be confusing, but I don't think it will really hinder us, do you?

units on the other hand, can be renamed to camoflauge strenght or weakness.

	13-12-2002 12:28									#9
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Looks like we're on a mid-sized peninsula. If that is correct, then it looks like militarily we are at a natural defensive and offensive advantage, having probably only 1 front to deal with.

I'm liking our start, not too shabby at all.

WAYYY better than NYE's start in the pbem...

(sorry to laugh NYE, I'm sure you may still catch up...who knows?)

	13-12-2002 12:30									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Looks like we're on a mid-sized peninsula. If that is correct, then it looks like militarily we are at a natural defensive and offensive advantage, having probably only 1 front to deal with. I'm liking our start, not too shabby at all. WAYYY better than NYE's start in the pbem... (sorry to laugh NYE, I'm sure you may still catch up...who knows?)

I'm liking it as well.

Am also grateful that no one is playing the Vikings, though that would make it very entertaining, eh?

	13-12-2002 12:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I'm liking it as well. Am also grateful that no one is playing the Vikings, though that would make it very entertaining, eh?

Definetely, that's a relief!

	13-12-2002 12:53									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic WAYYY better than NYE's start in the pbem... (sorry to laugh NYE, I'm sure you may still catch up...who knows?)

No offense taken, I think it's funny too. I am wondering just how funny. It may very well turn out to be an island. Actually, that would be the only salvation for that position... almost.

	13-12-2002 12:58									#13
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In another PBEM game I have a peninsular start. Playing Iroquois. Got a lot of tech from huts. Got horses, got horseback riding. Got a free settler out of the first hut... Me makem big war paint.

So it all evens out. btw, shhhhhh about the game I just described. We all know some of the other participants. The screaming shall start shortly.

	13-12-2002 13:22									#14
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If it does turn out to be an island, at least it's a decent sized one.
It' s at least capable of holding a dozen city's, even without the undiscovered tiles.
We have lot's of different tiles, so we should have a decent to good chance of having most resources.
Wich should give us allways a fighting chance.....

The biggest drawback in being alone is tech
Not only for not being able to sell/trade it (same goes for the ample resources we have,but then again; chieftain ),
but tech will not
devaluate if we have no contact.

Great lighthouse anyone

(I know I'm jumping to conclusions here, propably way to premature )

	13-12-2002 16:53									#15
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If we would be alone, I wouldn't call our home ground an island, but a lone continent... it's big enough to support at least 10 cities, which should mean we are not in that bad a position Re: science. But, if exploring reveals our loniness, we should immediately go for literature.

I'm not convinced, though, the map looks like either a continents, or maybe even a panganea start (with lots of water), not archipelago. Although we do have a lot of luxuries.

Does anyone know how many luxuries of one type we should get on a standard map? So far, we have 9 lux of two types, which at least tells us our landmass is fairly big (2 types at least, islands typically only get 1), am I wrong in thinking that somewhere on our landmass we should find another patch, or lonely incense and fur?

DeepO

	13-12-2002 17:06									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Does anyone know how many luxuries of one type we should get on a standard map? So far, we have 9 lux of two types, which at least tells us our landmass is fairly big (2 types at least, islands typically only get 1), am I wrong in thinking that somewhere on our landmass we should find another patch, or lonely incense and fur? DeepO

There should be one lux of each type per civ. While there may be some more incense or fur on our island, it woudln't suprise me if they were further away. I don't htink i've ever seen all of one type clumped together. a lot, but not all.

	13-12-2002 17:14									#17
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Well, I've seen quite a lot of clumps already, one of the last games had an island about as big as ours (but on a huge map), where 19 gems were located. If there are other furs and incense, it should be on the same continent as ours, or, by exception, 1 or 2 of them should be on a small island off our coast. They can't be on the other side of the map, or at least that's highly unlikely.

If there are still some 1-3 incense, and 2-4 furs to be found on this landmass, we know we can expect quite a bit of land to the north of us.

DeepO

	13-12-2002 17:23									#18
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Is the idea that there should be one lux of each type per civ something that comes from theory or something that comes from practical experience? It seems to me that there often aren't enough luxury sources to go around if all the players survive, although I rarely count to make sure. (In some cases, of course, the number of luxuries on the market is deflated a little because not all sources are withn the radius of a city connected to the trade network.)

Nathan

	13-12-2002 17:32									#19
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It's certainly not a fixed number, but varies a little due to the fractal algorithm used. I was wondering though, if it varies around the number of civs, or is rather a map-dependent thing...

What does seem like a rule is that all civs have at least one lux on their starting continent, I only saw this violated once on a huge archipelago map (there are a few examples of screenies posted on the board too). This does have bigger implications: if there are 7 civs, and we get (monopolies on) 2 lux, there should be someone with us on our landmass, or we should have the continent with enough space to normally locate 2 civs.

DeepO

	13-12-2002 17:40									#20
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whoops, I was wrong about having one lux per civ.

excuse me please, I haven't slept in a very long time and am not all together this morning

	13-12-2002 18:13									#21
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that's ok AATW - I was up from 10:00 am until 11:30 am this morning, or yesterday morning I mean - no sleep. I know exactly how you feel!

	13-12-2002 18:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic that's ok AATW - I was up from 10:00 am until 11:30 am this morning, or yesterday morning I mean - no sleep. I know exactly how you feel!

Yeah, its rough. I've got this damn 24 hr take home exam that I'm working on. Sigh. only 5 hrs left to work on it. Will it all come together? stay tuned.

	13-12-2002 19:10									#23
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On a standard map with 8 civs, there should be roughly 1 luxury per civ. The fact that our landmass has two types of luxuries STRONGLY suggests we are not alone.

Only vary rarely have I come across continents with 1 civ and more than 1 lux, or a continent w/o lux. It happens, but not often.

-Arrian

	13-12-2002 19:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian On a standard map with 8 civs, there should be roughly 1 luxury per civ. The fact that our landmass has two types of luxuries STRONGLY suggests we are not alone. Only vary rarely have I come across continents with 1 civ and more than 1 lux, or a continent w/o lux. It happens, but not often.

Agreed.

	13-12-2002 19:13									#25
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In other news... it's really starting to look like we have some nice land to our south.

I really want to see what's N & E of us.

-Arrian

	13-12-2002 19:29									#26
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Arrian, I used to play with the random map generator a lot and I've had similar experience. I agree with your statement.