15-08-2000 19:13									#1
	Vicyory-no vendettas, no battles Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Just won a transcend, random, huge map game with no vendettas or battles(except for native life) during the entire game. Won by transcend using Aki in 2354. These were the AI in the game:
Hive
Spartans
Gaians
University
Drones
Peacekeepers

Just wondering if anyone else has won in this way. I did have to overlook lots of territory incursions and stealing of my tech, but was at the point in the game where I was attempting to win this way. Also ignored transmissions when I thought factions were going to declare vendetta on me, which is weird because normally at a certain point they do anyway. Had to stay mainstream SE wise to avoid those auto aversion vendettas.

	15-08-2000 19:45									#3
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You are correct stayed default SE during the entire game, but got the cloning vats so had 50+ pop bases with 30+ of each orbital facility. Population growth is slow early game so just expanded to 40+ number of bases at this time.

	15-08-2000 20:38									#4
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Impressive! Aki-Zeta "plays well with others." Even if you would have used Demo/Green/Default it would have worked. I guess you only get some efficiency and planet though.

	15-08-2000 20:46									#5
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My settings weren't quite as impressive as yours (I wasn't on transcend, and my random map was only large), but I've had a very peaceful game as the Drones. (I must confess, I had to boot Zak off my continent in the first 10 years or so, but when he relocated, I quickly made up with him. Haven't fought since.) Opponents were:
Hive
Gaians
University
Peacekeepers
Cult of Planet
Cybernetic Consciousness

Pretty similar faction set (only subbing Spartans with Cult).

	16-08-2000 18:59									#6
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What I noticed also playing with Aki(only used them twice now) is if you choose cybernetic the negative effects are cancelled so you can get to +5effic,+2 planet, +6 research I think if you use knowledge also. Probably could even get better if you are an experienced player(I'm just recently using the SE settings more in games since I joined here, didnt realize how important they can be)using SE to your advantage. Also I cant remember which tech allows you to choose cybernetic? and also I think there is a secret project that cancels out negative to cybernetic?

	16-08-2000 19:31									#7
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I think SE choices matter a lot. I think the amazing thing about your game is that you didn't use any, but still did well.

You need Digital Sentience to use Cybernetics. It's up the left side of the tech tree and it's kind of out of the way for me usually. I prefer Eudaimonia.

	16-08-2000 19:58									#8
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Adam:

I would agree with your comment on SE being a big factor, especially in MP. In SP probably not so much because you are generally going to win anyway, might just take you longer. Also thanx for your comments in this forum. Your knowledge of the game is much greater than mine, and has been helpful in getting a better grasp for the depth of the game.

	16-08-2000 22:49									#9
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true (about the SE choices)

and thank you

	19-08-2000 04:26									#10
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I have had a number of no-vendetta wins on Huge maps on transcend in SMAC. (SMACX games take an extra 50 turns or so and I usually give up out of boredom before winning). As Peacekeepers, you can win diplomatic victory by 2300 no sweat, just by pop booming, and getting Empath Guild and Ascetic Virtues plus some loyal pactmates. Morgan, Deidre and Zak are usually best.

------------------
Creator of the Ultimate Builder Map, based on the Huge Map of Planet

	19-08-2000 18:10									#11
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I'm playing a game as the Hive, and these are my neighbors:

Cybernetic Consciousness
Cult of Planet
Drones
Usurpers
Caretakers
Data Angels

I believe that this time round my foreign policies were much more reasonable than I usually play as. I was trying to be less of a conquistadore and more of a nice neighbor.

So, I only exterminated FIVE of the six other factions! I'm really proud of myself!

	19-08-2000 19:59									#12
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lol at A. C.

	20-08-2000 14:07									#13
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No vendettas ??? no battles ??? (except for native life forms) HOW CAN THIS BE ???

First, how can this happen ? I always play as builder and try first of all to keep my rep noble. Inevitably, when I take the lead all hate me. I do not believe the SE choices make any difference as mine would please a leader and turn nuts some other leader.

Second, where's the pleasure in playing without fighting just a tiny little battle ???

	20-08-2000 16:51									#14
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Neptunus:

Sure I have played games momentum style, and quickly layed the smac down on all the AI. Soon however in SP even on transcend the AI is little but sport for your slaughter. Attempting to win the game through a builder-diplomatic style was part of the challange. Try it some time it is tough to do and win through transcend while keeping a clean integrity. I do agree that laying down the nerve gas and PB's can be alot of fun.

Later

	21-08-2000 01:46									#15
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I never said I enjoy nukes and gas pods. In fact I have NEVER used them in SMAC or SMAX. The only attrocity I allow myself is nerve stapling and ALWAYS after repealing the U.N. charter, just because I believe micromanaging drone riots is sooooooo boring.

However, some good dogfighting is (I think) both inevitable and desiring. 70%-80% of my games include wars after the discovery of chaos guns (the earliest occasion) or shard guns (the latest) and always by choppers, marines and rovers, usually with drop capability. Usually after shard guns there is noone left to fight (that's why I abandon games around 2350 : out of boredom)...

So the option of avoiding fights and wars is so appealing to me. What I'm asking is to give me some hints as to how I can achive that...

	21-08-2000 08:14									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well Neptunus I'd like to tell you I have some great strategy to keep the peace, however I think alot of luck was involved.
First my landing site was on a fair size continent on the lower portion of a huge map with no other factions on it. These are the things I did do during the game.

1)attempted to get treaties with everyone early in the game. No pacts though to keep away from the loyalty you are expected to show in conflicts between other factions.
2)trade or even give away tech as much as possible. For some reason others will like you more.
3)ignore incursions in your territory or stealing of your tech, not a big deal your going to win anyway
4)ignore transmisions whenever other factions seem at all hostile
5)Build 3 or 4 PB's as soon as you have the tech and place them in different non crucial bases in striking distance of all the factions. By non crucial I mean no secret projects in them, but with aerospace and several AAA probability sentenals with quantum or singularity reactor if possible.
6)locusts and skybases work great to keep enemy infantry out of your territory because of zones of control.

Overall it takes alot of luck because usually someone sooner or later will pronounce vendetta even if you ignore
transmissions. If you are perceived as strong, factions will be less willing to pick a fight. Be generous though with your tech to keep them happy, plus it is less time that they waste researching a tech you already have. Then they can research something you can trade for.

	21-08-2000 12:16									#17
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Way to go Stuntman!

I have always believed that this type of victory was possible but I've never seen it. My best attempt (on standard-sized map) was 180+ years playing as PK. I actually lost my lead running default SE choices and had a vendetta on my hands soon after moving out of default choices.

If my experience means anything, the four most important factors in your victory were: SE choices, incredible discipline in not striking out against obnoxious "friends" or pactmates, map size(the bigger the better) and random luck.

Don't think that I in any way am trying to take anything away from your achievement by including luck as a factor; it is just that there is a huge variability in how the AI will treat you, part of which is random.

Now let's see you do it on standard-sized maps.

	21-08-2000 18:29									#18
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Definitely concur with your observations about luck and map size being a big part of it. Luck prolly the most important as I've mentioned several times in this thread. If you try and do it dont overlook the generousity idea, it seems to help. Keeping SE on original settings can help avoid the auto aversion vendettas. Also if you can throw up a dozen orbital defense pods, that is sign of power, and works to deter aggression.

Will try the standard map when I get time and let you know how it goes. Just got into the MP game, and with real life obligations haven't started a SP for awhile. It is so annoying when real life interferes with my smac world......lol.

Later

	21-08-2000 20:48									#19
	Put an end to popups!

I remember my very first game of SMAC. . .
It was on the demo, and I was playing as the peacekeepers. I didn't even know there were SE choices, so I left those alone, and I proceeded to make pacts with just about everyone. When my 'coalition' proceeded to eliminate the only uppity race that wouldn't play nice, the Spartans, I won via diplomatic victory, within the first 100 turns.

Needless to say, there was very little fighting in that game. . .

	22-08-2000 03:00									#20
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Thanks a lot Stuntman19...