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D4everman
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Fort Dix, New Jersey
Jun 2000
time: 05:13
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Ok, I've only got one more thing to post this morning (so far)
If this fantasy world game were real which faction would you really want to lead or be in?
I'm in the military but I wouldn't be a spartan...I like the university but I don't see me fitting it into that society. As much as I hate to admit it, I'd probably be a peacekeeper. Funny thing is my co-worker (he plays a lot of SMAC) thinks I'd be in the University and he feels he'd be there too, but I see him as more of a Believer.
What do you think you'd be in?
D4
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waynehead
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Durham, NC
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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I think I'd want to live in either Morganite or Peacekeeper territory. Zakky'd probably try to do some experiment on me, Deidre's too tree-crazy, Miriam's insane, Yang doesn't care a whit for his subjects, and I couldn't adapt to the spartan lifestyle. I'm more of an Athens kinda guy.
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My sorry excuse for a website
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As a research student and a science graduate, with a future career that will more than likely lie in research, and strong scientific/atheistic leanings, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise to learn that if I were to join a faction, it would certainly be the University.
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The_Progenitors
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::what meaning:: if this game were real.
::is not real?::
[This message has been edited by The_Progenitors (edited June 19, 2000).]
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Alinestra Covelia
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I sense the dodgy presence of Bing - a presence I've not felt since...
Feb 2000
time: 00:13
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I have a pretty easy time existing in restrictive societies, and find that in several situations (all-girl boarding school, one year's compulsory military service, European fencing academy) I have been able to adapt and eventually succeed. (I was made a house prefect, an NCO sergeant, and wasn't picked on too often to be the demo dummy.)
I think Yang's Hive is something similar - if you can learn the ropes and adapt properly, you could rise to a godly position. True, this isn't in keeping with socialist teachings, but then again Yang's faction is at best a very distant subversion of the socialist rationale.
"Give me a good leader, and I will follow them to the ends of the earth."
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"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.
Homepage http://www.enixine.dabsol.co.uk (Shared)
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Adam_Smith
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The Raisin Capital of the World
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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As much as I would like to run through the woods naked, I would have to say that that would get old after a while. So the Gaians are out. I'm not into money or power too much either. That leaves out Morgan and Yang etc... I'm not religious although I enjoy pretending to be. That leaves out my favorite faction to play (Believers). I still can't figure out superstring theory so I think I would not do well in the UoP. I guess the only real factions I would even think about being in would be the Peacekeepers or the Drones. Lal does not strike me as a practical leader so I will go with the Drones.
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Bearcat
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Oregonia
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Maybe the Believers or the Pirates. Perhaps the Angels.
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joer
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Frankfurt, Germany
Apr 2000
time: 05:13
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I think the Cybernetic Conscience would have a certain appeal to me, even though it's less about joining a particular group, but being in a certain state of mind.
Giving up the irrational and over-emotional tendencies of my personality to become a 'better', more efficient and intellectually more capable person in a fair, stoic society that encourages and rewards such a way sounds like a good lifestyle to me. Not to mention that the term "becoming one with the machine" sounds like a very cool concept (it's not like I don't sit in front of my PC all day anyways). 
While the tendency for Morganities for personal comfort is nice, I despise the "make more money, just to make more money"-attitude that puts economic growth above everything.
I suppose I could live with the University's quest for more knowledge (and enlightenment?), even if it means sacrificing some personal comfort, so that faction would be number 2 on my list.
Data Angels...sure sound cute, but is that a way of society, but just a subgroup in a given society?
Comments on the other factions: Drones -- physical work? me??? I don't think so; Miriam: I don't think I'd have much fun there as atheist; Yang: hate dictatorships and police-states; Deedee: uh-huh ; Santiago: I even flunked militairy service; PK: I'm already going nuts with the amount of bureaucracy we have in this state. Is rulership by paper-shuffling really the way to go?
-joer
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kaz
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San Jose, CA, USA
Mar 2000
time: 05:13
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Bah, what were you shooting with? A laser pistol? Slap a Heavy Plasma on every guy, and you'll never fail to bag your man.(Hell, in Cydonia, I once killed three aliens with one turn of autoshot!)
Anyway, back to the topic.
I respect Santiago, but the Pirates seem more my style lately. I'd take vacations in Morgan terrritory.
But Marr is the one I understand the most. Hell yah, I want to be a god! Why would I play SMAC if I didn't?
[This message has been edited by kaz (edited June 20, 2000).]
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Doug325
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Marlboro, MA USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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OK lets look at each faction:
Hive : Be ruled by a meglomanical dictator-- I don't think so
Believers : Religion is OK, but I wouldn;t want to live in a society where it was the only thing - No
Spartans : Less objectionable than the above two, but I am not the military type
The other factions would be OK
Morganites : Being ricgh is good, but I am sure there is corporate backstabbing in a society that values money over everyting else
PKs : Good society - nice place to live
Gains : As someone else said, I would choose them if I could be Lady Diedre's lover. OK otherwise
Univ : My first choice
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Simpson II
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varies
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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Well, having done a degree in astrophysics and maths, I guess my obvious place would be in the University  .
They'd be high on my list, though the Data Angels would be my second(?) choice. I'm not into dogma, and a society of 'creative free-thinkers' (from the Firaxis site) sounds pretty fun. I'm not into hacking (these days, anyway) or causing mayhem, but life would be forever interesting. (And I must admit, I find Roze more intoxicating than Deirdre.. )
The Spartans would be hovering around as well. No, I would be shot after my first day in the army. However as a civilian on Chiron, I'd be reassured by being surrounded by a bunch of highly trained gun-nuts. Mindworms sound nasty, no?
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Jasonian
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Ruins of Jasonia Palace
Sep 1999
time: 00:13
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Oooh! This again. I wonder if my optins have changed since last time. Let's find out...
Worst --> Best
Manifold Caretakers - Well, they're in a really lousy situation. The entire faction is based around preventing Trancendence. They don't even have an ideology!
Cult of Planet - If the whole thing wasn't a sham (using "Planet says so" as an excuse to do whatever Cha Dawn wants), then this might not be so bad. But this seems like more intolerant then Yang! I think not.
Human Hive - Too bad Yang's a nutcase. Survival of the species is important, but Yang's ways are just going too far.
Spartan Federation - I'm not a military guy, and it seems like anyone that's not in the forces would be looked down upon in this faction.
Peacekeeping Forces - This society is so filled with red tape, it's amazing they can decide on the name for their fist base, let alone have a faction.
Pirates - I get seasick  . Sounds fun though.
Manifold Usurpers - They want to become Gods. Wow, what a goal! Too bad the ideology of the faction is focused on killing.
The Lord's Believers - I'm semi-religious myself, and I can understand that these people would be happy knowing they are in the care of God, but I fear the whole "God says so" thing similar to the Cult would cause problems.
Morgan Industries - All those luxuries are sure appealing, but the backstabing and general greed of the people must make them feel rather hollow inside.
Data Angels - I could probably do this, but they're probably a high-security faction, and that would become really bothersome. Everyone's a suspect!
Stepdaughters of Gaia - They have a very good point, but they take it too far. There is nothing wrong with consuming renewable resources - they can come back! Too extremist.
Cybernetic Consciousness - I'll bet some of your are suprised this didn't get dropped before now! What I like about these people is the fact that if I had a better idea then someone above me, they would use mine simply because it is better, and not care about the source. Still, giving up half of myself (the lesser half, however) seems rather painful, although it wouldn't hurt afterwords.
University of Planet - Ivory tower intellects. Gotta love it.
Free Drones - Yes, this is my #1 pick. They have the rights given by the Peacekeepers with the comforts of Morgan.
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xgman
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Yang: Could be fun to lead, if you don't have to actually become the insane Yang.
Miriam: Might be fun to be considered a prophet by millions of fanatics. Would build a raft out of fungus and risk the high seas if i woke up one morning as one of her subjects though.
Morgan: Would be fun to be the CEO and probably a phat place to work.
The Lady: One of my top choices. It seems to me they would build a harmonious paradise.
Lal: Love play as him in a long game on huge planet, but would not want to travel all the way from Earth and not try something radically different.
Santiago: It seems to me that her military mentallity is too short sighted, and that life would be pretty sh***y after conquest.
Zak: I love the idea of research, and it might be fun to lead, but the "unethical" part means I might be cut up just to see what how my insides look.
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Alinestra Covelia
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I sense the dodgy presence of Bing - a presence I've not felt since...
Feb 2000
time: 00:13
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I wonder how our mindsets would change if we really were 4.3 light years away from home, on a Planet that, although unforgivingly hostile in certain ways, we're already bloody lucky to happen across anyway.
I wonder how long it would take us to accept the need to kill actual animals for food. Not very long, I'd estimate - after worrying briefly about my nails and hygiene, I was skinning rabbits on military camp within a couple of days.
How long would it take for us to accept a need to kill humans? A bit extreme, perhaps, but there are seven factions on a world with no precursors to look to, no guidelines they have to follow, and seven different visions of the best path to survival and flourishing.
I've fired rifles and guns at targets and tin cans, but I've never actually fired at a live creature, or been shot at myself. I think I'd be able to do it, cerebrally and without hesitation if I had to, but that's just a peacetime estimation. Actually behind the gun I'd be different... but I estimate I'd be able to kill, in desperate situations, within a short time if I had to.
However, assuming that I could learn eventually to heft weaponry and/or fire rounds at people and perform well under fire, how long would it take for my entire mindset to change from an individual to a part of a whole?
Disease and poisons have killed off more soldiers throughout history than the fighting casualties of all the battles combined. Could I look at myself one day and believe myself to be an insignificantly small part of something greater? A society that will last after my death? A society unperturbed by my birth, and which would recover unsurprisingly quickly with my demise? If I were shot in the field and nobody came to rescue me, because the logistics were bad (two sound men to stretcher a wounded back to base), how long would I need to be able to overcome my pain and understand or maybe even sympathise with the society at war who cannot come to my individual aid?
Could I, instead of changing ideological allegiance (for example) from a capitalist to a communist or political allegiance from imperialist to socialist, could I actually change my entire concept of myself to be "one with many" instead of "one apart from many"? In other words, could I embrace the logistically-sound rationale of surrendering my own goals, in order to work towards a goal to aid others besides me?
It has been tried before on Earth, and failed. Always, the problem has been that of leadership... if everybody does as they're told and obeys the leader, we are putting all our social eggs in one big basket, and if that leader directs our efforts in the wrong direction, willfully or otherwise, then we are wasting effort on a monumental scale.
If you have played a game called System Shock II, you'll have a vague idea of the distinction I am drawing. I have always been interested by the western resistance to collectivism and fear of loss of individuality. The Hive, with its assimilation and dictatorship, is more or less the most "evil" of all the factions, including the Progenitor races. Loosely based on the Chinese race, which (I gather) has at present fallen somewhat out of favor with politicians and humanitarians around the world, I wonder whether or not a different viewpoint needs to be entertained before the Hive can be understood.
What if the somewhat more oriental social view could be entertained, that servitude is not always bondage? That humility is not always humiliation? That the western credo of "individual" and "human rights" might not be a fundamental cornerstone in the history of human evolution?
Yang's character is a merciless tyrant and a villain, both in the game and in the story (Journey to Alpha Centauri). That's partially because, I believe, he was written by a westerner. In actuality, I hold his in-game voiceovers to be more "true" to his nature: he is nihilistic, but not malevolently so. He can be brutal, but not maliciously so. He can be inhumane, but does so merely intending to dispel what he views as quaint overdelicacy, to foster a new approach to a new world.
Those were all brain-ticklers about the character of Yang and what Firaxis might possibly have intended as undertones and implicities. However, these are what I personally think the character of Yang might be like:
I do not think he is a hypocrite. I think he is rightly feared by many because his view of humanity is a rather inhumane one (whatever that word may actually mean... it is used almost as often as the meaningless word "unnatural" to express disapproval), but that nihilism extends to himself as well. If he is injured in a battle where his men are quitting the field, I do not think he is the type to curse and gnash his teeth and yelp for aid like a coward. Likewise, he would be happy enough to enter the Recycling Tanks at the end of his life, and rejoin his chemicals thus.
I do not think that the Chairman believes himself to be an ultimate power. I think it is a monstrous caricaturization to make him into a brutal Communist thug who delights in causing others pain. I interpret his indoctrinations as an effort to pass a less finicky, more logically sound method of society onto others, and if they can assume his position with equal ability, he would certainly admit to this... at least, to himself.
He does not sympathize with certain emotions that others feel, especially if they feel revulsion for something "morally" disturbing. The idea of combining human tissues, post mortem, in a communal Recycling Tank, may be repulsive to some. Not to the Chairman: his view is very much one of "materials, not manners". I would also imagine he would take a very dim view of all complaints about this.
He takes a view that "one's opinion is only as good as one's knowledge". ie Freedom of Speech is secondary to merit. Understandably, America would probably take extreme issue with this sentiment, perhaps rightly so. I do believe that the Chairman is not a Pol Pot - he has an abiding respect for the educated and the intelligentsia... after all, according to his history, he is one of them himself.
As I said in my earlier (shorter!) post, I think of the Hive as being a society rather akin to a meritocracy, but with considerably different methods of judgement than we know today. I do NOT believe that Yang is a sadist, a Commie, or even a "control freak" as the Western conception of this goes. He loves control, and wishes that everybody else too would love control as much as he does. Then, when the individuals have mastered control over themselves, they can apply themselves more selflessly to the needs of the society as a whole.
*bats chirp* *owls hoot*
*Allie goes home now*
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19-06-2000 12:05
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